RepackboxRotoMetals2Lee PrecisionTitan Reloading
Graf & SonsMidSouth Shooters SupplyInline FabricationStainLess Steel Media
Wideners
Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: PC scraped off when sizing...

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Southwest, Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,267

    PC scraped off when sizing...

    I had some issues with casting the other day. I had some lead finning on my boolits so I realize the thin lead fin scraped off along where the PC was. I know it's not the PC's fault and from crappy casting. I would assume it's nothing to worry about and won't cause leading and just to shoot away? This is the first run with my devistor replacement mold I sent back last fall being it was casting a third of a lip around every boolit with two different BH hardness of PB. The replacement mold fins with both PB I tried last year and seaps out through the pin. The new mold seaps lead so I have a lip all the way around the hollow point compared to a 1/3 of a lip with overflow. I'm missing my old mold. With The new mold you can see daylight on the outer edge when it's completely sealed around the cavity. Mold number three is on its way.

    I made these about of 50 percent coww with a BH of 14 and 50 percent pure that was around 6 BH and added 2 percent pewter. I used my Lyman 4/20 pot and turned the heat down from 7 to just above 5 and didn't heat my pin to see if my PB was too hot. It got to the point that my hollow point cavity wasn't forming and I was still getting finning. I scraped most of it off with my fingernail and apparently still wasn't enough to the point the fin scraped off when sizing.

    I wound assume they should still shoot accurate and not cause leading as long as I do my part with the correct sizing?






    You can see it on the reds, yellow, and purple boolit. Not all did this just a few. You can see on the yellow it smeared down into the lube groove. I kept switching colors and bounced them in the same container to get the excess off that made the funky dark spots. The PC covered decent and passed the smash test. This was the first time I PC'd outside as well. I normally do it in the house to control the humidity. Inside I get a thick even coat. I had 53% humidity the other day and coverage wasn't great but went on. I can tell its a lot thinner coat than I normally get inside. When sizing I did spray the boolits with wd40 before running them through with a GC.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 05-19-2018 at 05:23 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    bangerjim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    out of here, wandering somewhere in the SW.
    Posts
    8,707
    You really have to work HARD to get PC to come off in a smoothe bore sizing die.

    Check your cure temp. MUST be 400F for at least 10 min after the poweder turns shiny.

    Also sizing is normally only 1-2 thou down,

    Check your proceedures on coating. I can smash a boolit to a cube and NO powder comes off.....far more severe that a simple pass thru a smooth sizing die!!!!!!!

    Yellows and whites do NOT coat as thick (in pigment) as do other darker colors. The resin is STILL there and that is all that counts for protection.

    Banger

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Southwest, Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,267
    I used Smokes powder. Once it turned shiny I baked it for 20 min at 450 in my toaster oven. Some of my GC's wouldn't snap on and I started them crooked when I sized. I'm guessing the boolit scraped on one side going in crooked? I remember having the same issue last year when sizing 35 rem. I eliminated the scratching by pushing the boolit up into the sizer with my finger and then rasing the ram to the boolit base.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 05-19-2018 at 06:20 PM.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master


    Kraschenbirn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    East Central IL
    Posts
    2,510
    Sized the noses (.303+ to .301) on 400+ .30 cal. bore-riders this afternoon and only lost 3 to damaged PC. Looking at the material scraped off under an illuminated magnifier showed alloy in the coating which, to me, would indicate (a) most likely didn't start the boolit straight in the sizer or (b) nose was a mite oversize...like, maybe, the mold wasn't completely closed when cast and didn't catch it when I culled before coating. Either way, "my bad". FWIW, was using an NOE sizer and coating was Smoke's Carolina Blue.

    Bill
    "I'm not often right but I've never been wrong."

    Jimmy Buffett
    "Scarlet Begonias"

  5. #5
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Gulf Coast Fla.
    Posts
    35
    When I see finned boolits, I just toss them back into the pot. I assume that I screwed up that casting. But since you've already PC'd and put gas checks on them, I'd just shoot them. Just my 2 cents worth.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Southwest, Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,267
    I started them crooked in the sizer...my fault. Its been since last fall since I pc'd and forgot I boo booed some doing the same. I eliminated the issue by pushing the boolit up into the sizer with my finger and then raising the sizing arm up till the seater plug touched the base and ran it up through the sizer. I will shoot these up. I'm sure it won't lead or probably affect any accuracy.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Southwest, Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,267
    I ran some though this morning. I took a little more time trying to snap the GC's on before sizing instead of starting them with the GC overlapping one side of the boolit base. I had a few that still wouldn't snap on. I pushed them up into the sizing die with my fingers till the boolit touched and raised the ram up to the GC and pushed them threw. I only had one that scraped off some of the finning. I normally get thicker PC coating that I think makes it more durable. I have had the PC sitting in the container since last fall that I tumbled with it originally. Also it was raining outside today so humidity was high.






  8. #8
    Boolit Master


    Kraschenbirn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    East Central IL
    Posts
    2,510
    NOE makes a deburring tool for cleaning up boolit bases. Works like a champ to get rid any flash and put a slight bevel on the GC shank.

    Bill
    "I'm not often right but I've never been wrong."

    Jimmy Buffett
    "Scarlet Begonias"

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Dragonheart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Katy, Texas
    Posts
    1,562
    I would start out by cleaning your mold, assuming you handles are working properly. Finning is usually the result of the mold not completely closing usually due to minute particles of alloy on the mold faces. Hold the mold up to the light and see if you can see any light coming through. If the mold is warped it will never close properly.
    A one to one mix of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide applied to the mold faces with a Qtip will aid in dissolving the lead. Dip the eraser of a #2 pencil in the mix and rub any lead deposits you can see. The sharpened point of the pencil lead can aid in dislodging deposits as well as cleaning vent lines. The graphite in the pencil lead also works well by rubbing a coating in the mold cavities to aid in bullet release.
    As you already know the PC is too thin on the first batch of bullets. Not taking the powder is because the necessary static charge is not present. This can be for a variety of reasons: old powder, powder not suitable for tumble coat, contamination, high humidity, etc. Make sure you bullets are completely clean. A water quench in a dirty bucket is all it takes. If your powder is old try preheating your bullets 150-175 degrees; you must have a thermometer to do this properly.
    I personally GC then PC as the coating locks on the check.
    Make sure your oven comes to 400 degrees and can maintain the temperature for at least 10 minutes after the temperature of the bullets has stabilized at 400. You have to have an accurate thermometer to do this.
    These are some of my suggestions that may help.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Southwest, Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,267
    Thanks, PC I was using was sitting in Tupperware from the last time I tumbeled last year about the same time. It's smokes powder...and it covered awesome last year...it's just gotta be getting old and not sticking anymore. I have plenty unvandalized powder still in the original double zip lock bags I bought from him I'll have pull out and retry. I'll try some fresh PC and see if that helps. Humidity was high as well but I think it was more of the old PC causing less coverage.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 05-28-2018 at 01:42 PM.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    Dragonheart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Katy, Texas
    Posts
    1,562
    PC powder typically has an expiration date of 2 years, but I think that depends a lot on the chemistry of the powder. I do know this from my own use of powder for now over 6 years and that is the colder it is kept the longer it seems lasts. Since the powder has a natural propensity to absorb water keeping the powder dry is a must. Humid air contains water and water kills the static charge. If you spray you definitely need dry air.

    I have a garage refrigerator/freezer and separate freezer, so I use the freezer section of the refrigerator to store my powder, which is about "0 degrees". All my powder continues to work as intended and I have some powder that is now over 6 years old. When I take it out I allow it to come to room temp, take out what I will use and put the remainder back in the freezer. I haven't read of anyone doing or recommending this, but it is working for me.

    I wouldn't throw out the old power without trying a preheat on the bullets first to see if you can get it to stick.

  12. #12
    Vendor Sponsor

    Smoke4320's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Right here ..at least I was a minute ago
    Posts
    3,857
    If you do preheat I would not the above about 150 degrees or so .. you only want to eliminate the moisture not make the powder "premelt" when applying .. you will have a mess
    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=nuke50&...7ADE&FORM=QBLH

    Selling Hi Quality Powdercoating Powder

    PULSAR night vision and thermal dealer !!!
    PM me for a good deal

    I am not crazy my mom had me tested

    Theres a fine line between genius and crazy .. I'm that line
    and depending on the day I might just step over that line !!!

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Grmps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    2,735
    +1 on cleaning your mold, as Dragonheart said those verticle lines are caused by the mold not closing all the way and will give you out of round boolits harder to size

    what are you sizing them with? If it's a Lee or NOE sizing die you can polish the sizer and the mouth of the sizer with some 1000 grit sandpaper. I like to use a Dremel with a bullet shape polishing attachment and some fine polish to smooth and shine up the entry/mouth of the die.

    If the PC passes the smash test a smooth Lee or NOE sizer die won't scrape of pc

    I would suggest investing in/or building a PID to control your pot, you'll be so much happier with the results

    450 for 25 min is hotter and longer than needed for smokes powders I've never had to go more than 15 min @400. I do have some specialty powders that require 20 min @ 400 after the PC starts to melt

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
    Dragonheart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Katy, Texas
    Posts
    1,562
    As Grumps stated increasing temperature of time is not going to gain you anything except possible problems. The only powder I know of that it is suggested to increase the temp to 450 degrees is bright chrome. As smoke suggested and in my previous post, preheat to 150-175 or less is all that is needed, going higher and you will end up with a PC lead ball.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Southwest, Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,267
    I started from scratch. Grabbed a new container,bb's, and PC that I had stored from last year. Smokes blue and clear are beautiful. Red, orange, and purple were spotty but covered. I think I'm going to just clear all my boolits from now on being its as smooth as glass. After I tried red and it turned out a little spotty I bumped my oven heat ten degrees to 465 and baked for 20 min. It definitely helped. I think why I did so well at PCing last yeAr is because I did it in the fall when it was colder with less humidity. I tapped the GC's on and started the boolits all the way up into the sizer and then raised the sizer arm up to the GC. I also think my ovens gauge is probably not accurate. I did a pat post and tried PCing from 400-475 degrees in 5 degree bumps last year for 20 min at a crack. I never had a boolit slump or melt and found certain powder colors melted more even at different temps. 455 worked good for purple and red. My red yesterday at 455 still was uneven and what I would call lumpy. I bumped my conventional oven to 465 and you can see the difference with the blue and clear. I can get a more even powder flow with higher temps. Experimentation is the key.

    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 05-30-2018 at 11:01 AM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Southwest, Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,267
    This is link to my post with test photos when I was working out the bugs on uneven PC flow issues I was having. It was a fun test and I learned a lot in the process.

    I always thought about PCing after sizing and GC installed to hold it in place but i never get an even surface on the base of my boolit after PCing. Either lines from mesh or a little build up from what ever color stuck to my silicone baking sheet and I would assume if the base isn't perfectly flat and even its going to affect my accuracy at longer ranges. I like the contrast of the copper GC look anyways.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...25#post4108325
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 05-30-2018 at 12:21 PM.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
    Dragonheart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Katy, Texas
    Posts
    1,562
    Tripplebeards, do yourself a big favor and go to Amazon and order a Taylor Oven Guide Glass thermometer. Looks like they are now about $13. As far a powder coating it will be the best money you have spent. They say, "You won't know what's happening without a Program". Well when it comes to powder coating you won't know what's happening without a thermometer. The only thing the oven dial is good for is to tell you the oven is on.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Southwest, Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,267
    Yeah, I'll have to get one.

    I just did a couple batches with fresh powder and an old lee hp .430 I got from a member today at 465 at 20 min again....





    I had the ac on in the house most the day to kill the humidity as well.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 06-01-2018 at 09:45 AM.

  19. #19
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonheart View Post
    Tripplebeards, do yourself a big favor and go to Amazon and order a Taylor Oven Guide Glass thermometer. Looks like they are now about $13. As far a powder coating it will be the best money you have spent. They say, "You won't know what's happening without a Program". Well when it comes to powder coating you won't know what's happening without a thermometer. The only thing the oven dial is good for is to tell you the oven is on.
    I have a lyman casting thermometer and a laser thermometer. Can either of them be used for the purpose of monitoring oven temp?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check