Lever Action Bullet Casting ?

[barnaclebill]

I have some lever actions [original] that I want to cast bullets for.

Winchester 1886 45-70
Winchester 1886 40-82
Marlin 45 govt. I think 45-70

Looking through the dies available it instantly became very apparent that I did not know how to choose the proper one. My Sharps and 45-70 Springfield , being single shot rifles the decision is easy but for a lever action I have to insure that the cartridge will feed correctly. How do I choose a design and size of a bullet? Blunt end, pointed end, rounded end, how heavy? How long? and are lever action bullets pan lubed the same as my single shot bullets? Thanks BB

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
Well first is the bore and chamber... what size are they really. An example. My Winny 1892 (27xxx) 44-40. The "standard" mold is .427. But my chamber area is .433. A .427 boolit simple rattles down the barrel ... I was "bumping boolits up(fatter) . Then I bought a Rapine mold that drops a NICE .434 boolit. Real accuracy is now easy.
#2 Overall cartridge length... there are GREAT threads in "Lever Action" that can help there. Mold suggestions.. loads... yea you will have to search a bit but the education is well worth the time. At the top of the page on the right right side is a box SEARCH . Play with it and you will find some help.

[Shiloh]

I have a Lyman 31141 170 gr FP for my sons .30-30. No .44 or .45 yet.
I get good accuracy but really need to work with it more. I'm curious if anyone has used a more pointed boolit in the .30-30 and loaded them single shot style??

Shiloh

[Boerrancher]

Shiloh,

I load the lee 309-180-R, which is a not a true round nose nor is it a flat point, in my 30-30 and let them feed in the tube. The way they lay in the tube the nose of the boolit is actually resting on the rim of the case on top, or in front of it if you will. I do not advise using a loverin style boolit but have shot semi-pointed round nose cast boolits in lever guns for years with no problems. There are many here I am sure who will say that what I am doing is taboo, but as I have said I have been doing this for years with out any problems, not even any lead marks near the primer.

Best wishes from the Boer ranch,

Joe

[EDK]

Get a copy of Mike Venturino's SHOOTING LEVER GUNS OF THE OLD WEST...in hard cover, from Mike, and ask him to autograph it. READ THE BOOK FIRST and then do some searches on the net.

There's plenty of info on the 45/70...and lots of choices on bullet moulds. I prefer the RCBS 300 grain gas check...it works well in the 3 MARLIN 45/70 rifles that I have access to. Dies, moulds and brass are readily available and tons of data.

Buffalo Arms has a great web site and lists dies, brass, bullets, and moulds for the 40/82. You can call them during business hours and get expert advice. Their catalog is a treasure house for people wanting to shoot obscure black powder cartridges in vintage rifles. I would buy from them and save the hassle of looking all over for what I need. They're first class folks to deal with.

By now you've figured out that 40/82 isn't exactly a stock item at WAL-MART. You just have to do a little more work to get ammo/components.

[AzShooter]

Contact Ranch Dog Moulds. One of the sponsors here. He specializes in lever action casting moulds and they are wonderful bullets. I have his 311 165 and asked for it to mould bullets at .314 and it does it perfectly.

Reason for the oversize mould is that I shoot Mosin Nagants and 5 of them have bores of .314 or 315.

[LVRFAN]

BB- my dad and I have been using the RCBS 300 gr. FNGC in all of our 45 rifles:
45-60, 45-70, 45-75 and have had really good luck with it. It feeds well in anything and seems to be very accurate.

[Buckshot]

..............You'll want a FN slug for those tube magazine rifles. On of the members here, Jon K is using the Lyman Gould 330gr FNHP in his Marlin M95 loaded with BP and getting 2.5 - 3" groups at 220 yards (Tang sights). I know you didn't mention BP but the boolit is a good one and obviously capable of great accuracy.

There is a great number of suitable boolit designs out there, running from 300 to 405grs which would be superb in the 45-70's. In most all common weights from the 4 major manufacturers you'll also have the coice of GC or PB.

..............Buckshot

[jimkim]

I think it might be more helpful to you if the bullets that wont work or feed are posted. I say this because I am yet to find a FN or RN bullet that wont work or feed in my 30-30. Are there any FN or RN bullets that should be avoided? Sorry for hijacking your thread. I just figured this might be more helpful to you.

[barnaclebill]

I think it might be more helpful to you if the bullets that wont work or feed are posted. I say this because I am yet to find a FN or RN bullet that wont work or feed in my 30-30. Are there any FN or RN bullets that should be avoided? Sorry for hijacking your thread. I just figured this might be more helpful to you.

Great answer, Thanks for hijacking
OK--Here goes.......Are there any bullets to avoid using in my lever actions? ?

Another question if I may
What are the determining factors used to choose the weight of a bullet besides the barrel twist ? I have all the books but cannot find a precise answer.

[missionary5155]

NO NEVER... Spire points !!!

[barnaclebill]

..............You'll want a FN slug for those tube magazine rifles. On of the members here, Jon K is using the Lyman Gould 330gr FNHP in his Marlin M95 loaded with BP and getting 2.5 - 3" groups at 220 yards

..............Buckshot

Convinced me ! Flat Nose it is and I am looking at the RCBS 300 gr. FNGC mold that was mentioned a couple times in the postings. Thanks BB

D

[docone31]

I will use my experience as a guide. First, all people from a distance can do is give a ball park.
I had miserable luck untill I slugged my barrel. Miserable. Got to do lots of casting, sizing, reloading, bragging. Almost couldn't hit the berm! I have, to me, a sweet Smelly. You have some sweet lever guns. Sweet. You will need to know size, first. You already know whether you are going black powder or smokeless. That will dictate lead composition.
In terms of feeding, what did they originally do? That is a good start point.
Each chamber, and feeding procedure will have a small variance. Load one and try it. When it is accurate, try two, one in the tube, one in the chamber. Try cycleing it.
I had a 336, in 30/30. I almost never crimp when I reload. I set that load to cycle, and chamber. Worked all right that way.
With my Smelly, I got the specified mold. It actually is a little small for my rifle, however, it sizes down REAL well to paper patch. I also size it down for my .30s. Makes them a real good bore rider. My conclusion, better to cast large, it is real simple to size down. I use the Lee Push Thru Sizer. Cheap and efficient. I size at .311 for my .30s. I would never use .311 jacketeds in a .308. But, castings seem to like it. .309 just seems to skate. I can also go minum Lee Charge Data loads with paper jacketing.
Probably doesn't help much, but, it is what I have learned so far.
I would use a common casting for your rifle. Then I would play with the size. I would start large and size down. Down sizing the way I do really cleans up the castings. What is left of the lube grooves helps with paper patching.
Those rifles are real sweethearts. Once you dial it in, they will be great. A piece of history in your hands. Not too many left.
Slug the barrel, that will save a lot of time and wrong molds. Hang in here, I bet someone has shot those loads. His load might not be the best, but it might help.
Someday, I might find one of those.

[TCLouis]

my 1886 (made in 92) and has a perfect bore so I doubt it saw much black powder. That 45-70 sure does like Ranch Dogs boolit. It is 378 grains in my alloy and I think I posted a picture of 50 yard group from it on "Group Buy Results" page.
That loading is moving kind of slow, but I would not want to step in front of it. I would guess it is subsonic and just keeps on keeping on!

I plan to test penetration this fall if I can get some volunteers.

MOMENTUM ROCKS

[26Charlie]

.40-82 was a blackpowder express cartridge, with a 260 gr. bullet, if memory serves. I had used that bullet in a .401 Herter Ram Magnum revolver in years gone by - it was casting .403 or thereabouts. If you can't find a suitable mold, .41 magnum moulds casting a 220 gr. SWC at .411 can be used, because the bullets will easily size to whatever you need for your bore diameter with a Lee push-through die. The slow twist of .40-82 means you will want a short bullet near the original weight.

[Lloyd Smale]

the 300, 405 and 500 rcbs bullets all share the same nose and feed well in leverguns.