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Thread: Help for 358 Norma Magnum

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Help for 358 Norma Magnum

    Anybody have some load data using 7383 powder with 250 and/or 275gr cast bullets (gas checked) in the 358 Norma Magnum? In fact, I'll take any powder loads in that bullet weight range. To be used in a Mauser 98 with 24" barrel. Any comments on cast bullets in general in the Big Swede?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master



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    A search found your post.

    Long time fan here! If your still needing, I have some data Ill compile it if you say the word.

    CW
    NRA Life member REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  3. #3
    murf205 has a 358NM, he gave me some info for my 35-338WM, reach out to him. I generally use 35 Whelen info as a starting point,and load up using all the standard precautions.
    Don't want no one to git hurt, but if you're gonna have a wreck, I wanna watch.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    no help on info just
    wanna say that is one of the cals
    I NEED to get
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  5. #5
    Boolit Master



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    I have also wanted one for a couple decades!! No true “need” so it wasnt till this year that I got one!

    Last year I bought a Commercial Mauser in 7MM REM MAG for the action and would begin acquiring parts. I bought a BC kevlar stock and recoil pad. Nicer bolt shroud and a Timmey trigger. The project kinda stalled thru the deer season and then the holidays. This spring I was on another caliber kick and that got me another fav 35 another Maximum. The 35 flames where re kindled.

    I was soeaking with a friend about a JES rebore vs a new barrel... and He says ya know... I saw a NM for sale on a forum. Some guy in Texas had one for sale... He called me back the next evening after sending me a link to the rifle. I spent a couple days swapin questions and pics and struck a deal. I sent the funds and in a few days I owned a 1973 Winchester pusher, re chambered by JES in 358 NM.

    I shot it for the first time yesterday. I LOVE IT!!

    I shot about 45 rounds. Nothing real heavy... a few Trail Boss 230g cast to get on paper. Then some 2600 fps 200’s stepped to 2700 200’s then some 2650 225’s. ALL JACKETED was MOA or better!! Three guys wandered down and started talkin. Each took a shot with the 2700 FTX/200’s. And each of them pinwheeled the 1.5” dots I had in the four corners of one target @ 100.

    A friend ran me half a doz bullets they quick load with all powders... WOW that email printed FOREVER and ran me outta ink!! About a inch thick!! Ill stipulate fewer powders next time. Probably 25% of them i have never herd of!!

    I have a NOE 280 RN gc that I am hoping to be a shooter. My whelen likes it!

    CW
    NRA Life member REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by handloder View Post
    Anybody have some load data using 7383 powder with 250 and/or 275gr cast bullets (gas checked) in the 358 Norma Magnum? In fact, I'll take any powder loads in that bullet weight range. To be used in a Mauser 98 with 24" barrel. Any comments on cast bullets in general in the Big Swede?
    My rifle has a 23" Douglas barrel and the 250 Hornady loads I have started with 69.9 gr --Imr 4350 for 2560 fps
    71.5 @2663 fps
    72.5@2685 fps
    73.5@2787 fps
    74 @2818 fps (Stopped here)
    76.8 grs of Imr 4831 was good for 2629fps and shot about 1 1/2"
    Nosler Partition 250 gr with 73.6 grs @ 2750 average is the one I settled on. Also a 225 Sierra BTSP went 2900 ave and shot into 1 1/2" with 72.5grs of Imr 4350. Also Imr 4007 SSC was really good in this barrel but they dont make the stuff anymore. Some of these are kind of warm so sneak up on them.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I have a bunch of brand new Norma brass and some Savage actions and the tools to do a barrel swap. I just have not ordered a barrel yet!

    I also have a Model 70 (pre 64) with a brand new stainless 7mm Rem barrel on it that needs a stock that as a controlled feed would make a dandy 358 Norma.

    Decisions decisions!

    Three44s
    Socialism works great until you run out of zoo animals to eat!

  8. #8
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    Both of those actions are plenty long enough to seat 250 gr bullets out to the neck/shoulder junction. I have never tried 280 gr but they would be a real thumper--on both ends. I used a Ruger tang safety action for mine and had Jimmy McCullough do the chamber. I gave him around with the 250 gr Nosler Partition seated to within 1/8" of max magazine length and he got the throat perfect. A Boyd's laminate stock would make that M70 one tough 358 Norma!
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it

  9. #9
    Boolit Master



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    I was shootin mine today.

    Mine is a ‘70’s Winchester, pusher with a factory bbl that has had a JES rebore. Im working up loads on a 250g bullet and IMR 4350 powder. I have a couple hundred ea of Norma ORYX & Speer SP’s. So far, Im past 74g and doing fine. Not sure I “NEED” more. As the ORYX cracked 2750 fps today. The Speers with same load are a bit slower at 2720 avg. No appreciable pressure signs. (Case head or primer) Recoil was noticeable but not excessive in past 2700 loadings. The KickEEZ pad that I fit this am is doing a marshals job removing the sting! I shot about sixty rounds today starting at 69g IMR4350.

    Last two rounds I had where 73 & 73.5g and they hit the 100y within 3/4” of each other @ poa.

    Im real happy with this rifles so far!

    CW
    NRA Life member REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    It is said that Winchester’s introduction of the 338 Win Mag killed off the 358 Norma. I don’t doubt that. As I recall reading Norma was assisting gunsmiths at some level to get more rifles converted to their cartridge and foreign rifles were being sold here in the US chambered in the Norma cartridge but Winchester’s 338 release swamped their 35 caliber offering.

    The 338 Winchester is certainly a grand cartridge by any measure but the Norma 358 is as well. The larger bore does not have as many bullets to chose from as the 338 does but there are more choices that are heavier and that is where the 358 outshines the smaller bore.

    As good as the reputation is you read time to time of a hunter connecting with a greater bear and that impact initiating a charge with a 338. The 358 has some edge there without going full magnum with perhaps a 375 H&H.

    Three44s
    Socialism works great until you run out of zoo animals to eat!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master



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    I have herd it said before and I doubt its true but I have not counted. That the 338 has more bullet choices. Seeing as there are TWO commercial 338’s and close to. DOZEN 358’s again I find that doubtful. Maybe they speak to tough, heavy for caliber offerings more in line with the Normas needs. Maybe that I could believe. But Woodleigh alone ahs 4-5.. Swift more than a couple more to add. (Of coarse they have 338’s to Offer as well.)

    The biggest blow was simply availability and information. There was no web no i ternet only magazines and shops To get the news out and Winchester had rifles on shelves and available. Norma didnt make Guns. Husky and Larson where not readily available and if you fould one Winchesters where cheaper and ahd the ammo on hand everywhere. Not so with the European 358. The fact that its better in nearly every way was immaterial.

    CW
    NRA Life member REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    CW,

    I should qualify the “more bullet choices” comment with respect to 338 v. 358.

    In totality, the .357-.358 bore range as far as bullet choice eclipses the .338” by miles. What I was referring to are logical choices for medium to heavy game.

    A handgun bullet or for that matter a bullet constructed for a 35 Rem or even lighter 35 Whelen slugs though they can be fired in a Norma is not a good fit for larger animals.

    The opposite is true of the 338”. Those bullets are all constructed for heavier business IMO.

    The distinction at the bullet weight range above 250 gr tilts the advantage back to the 358 Norma. There are less 338s and more 358’s there.

    Best regards

    Three44s
    Socialism works great until you run out of zoo animals to eat!

  13. #13
    Boolit Master



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    Wasnt pinnya down, at least I didnt mean it that way.

    That was my second thought!
    NRA Life member REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    CW, if it is anything like the other JES rebores Ive seen it is mirror smooth. What twist did you get in yours. Mine has a 14" and I was thinking about trying some 280 gr stuff in it before I had the reverse in the right shoulder. I wish Barnes made 250 gr TSX's but they would probably be too long for that lazy 16" twist in the Rem 700 35 Whelens or 358 Winchesters or marginal at least.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwlongshot View Post
    Wasnt pinnya down, at least I didnt mean it that way.

    That was my second thought!
    Hey, no offense taken.

    We make too much about the amount of bullet selection sometimes. If we have one good one and our rifle likes it what else do we need?

    Best regards

    Three44s
    Socialism works great until you run out of zoo animals to eat!

  16. #16
    Boolit Master



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    Im glad T44!

    Ya know murf Im not even sure! It IS a JES rebore. Ill check it next cleaning session next weekend. My 280’s are too large unless I dont PC them. I do have a few greased but nut sure I wanna go backwards. I like PC. Im looking at a Accurate mold now in 270 g that has a nose shape that still gives a 24cal meplat yet is thin enough that the extra few thousandths my pc adds will not hurt anything.

    Also your barrel is just a lil “faster” than mine. 72g netter me 2700 avg and 73 was 2765 fps. I did a 74 but do not remember. It was one round somnot a average. I fired two @ 100 (all I had left if test loads and they where different charge weights. But they fell inside 1” @ 100. I super pleased with the accuracy of this one!

    CW
    NRA Life member REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    I'm not familiar with that particular gun powder. Based on my own experience, this cartridge does not need really slow burning powder. IMR 4350 was about the slowest I ever used in mine.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  18. #18
    Boolit Master



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    (Murf & I ARE using IMR4350)
    NRA Life member REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    I agree with Texas By God,

    I have a friend who is a huge proponent of the “Big Swede” and I believe he is currently loading H380 but that is with j-words.

    The OP is looking at cast, perhaps that shades what is desired with peak pressures?

    Best regards

    Three44s
    Socialism works great until you run out of zoo animals to eat!

  20. #20
    Boolit Master



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    My bad. apologies.

    Any other parameters you can add?

    Use maybe! Velocity range your looking for?

    I have only played a little as only heavy bullet I can use is 230g. I’m looking at a Accurate 270. I have a wonderful Noe 360-280, but it’s a bore rider & I prefer powder coat. So this profile isn’t friendly the the dia increase where I cannot resize it.

    On the 230’s I have used a full case of trail boss for a pleasant mid 1500fps velocity. If you don’t know TB powder it’s a marvel. NOT low pressure only low velocity. Any case load the powder for a 80-99.9% powder density. Do not compress. That’s your data. Works for any & every caliber I have used it in.

    CW



    Quote Originally Posted by handloder View Post
    Anybody have some load data using 7383 powder with 250 and/or 275gr cast bullets (gas checked) in the 358 Norma Magnum? In fact, I'll take any powder loads in that bullet weight range. To be used in a Mauser 98 with 24" barrel. Any comments on cast bullets in general in the Big Swede?
    NRA Life member REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check