RotoMetals2ADvertise hereTitan ReloadingInline Fabrication
StainLess Steel MediaLee PrecisionGraf & SonsMidSouth Shooters Supply

Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Suggest some molds/bullets for 44-40 with .431 bore

  1. #1

    Suggest some molds/bullets for 44-40 with .431 bore

    I'm looking for a good bullet mold to use with my New Winchester 92 (Miroku made) in 44-40.

    I have made cerrosafe casts of the chamber and last 3 inches of the barrel and my casts came out at .4285 but were .431 after 1 hour which according to cerrosafe instructions should be the exact size.

    I have been using .429 bullets with mixed results so i wan't to try something that casts a bit bigger than .431 and can be lube sized in a LAM2.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master mehavey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    250
    What alloy/hardness are you currently shooting the .429s ?

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Hampton Roads, Virginia
    Posts
    10,094
    Make sure you can chamber a round loaded that big - boolit + case - before you invest in a mold.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by mehavey View Post
    What alloy/hardness are you currently shooting the .429s ?
    2% tin, 6% antimony, 92% lead

  5. #5
    Boolit Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lake Havasu City, Arizona
    Posts
    16,318
    As a suggestion I'd add 50% lead to that and then 2% tin for a 94/3/3 alloy.

    What mould/bullet are you casting for it now?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    over the hill, out in the woods and far away
    Posts
    5,638
    My experience with modern produced .44-40 rifles such as the Marlin and Rossi has been that they all use barrels of .44 Magnum bore and groove dimensions and that chamber necks are large enough to accept .431" diameter cast bullets which fit properly and shoot well.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	43-200QBullseye50yds.jpg 
Views:	3 
Size:	42.5 KB 
ID:	220537

    With Starline brass you require a chamber neck diameter of 0.447" to load .430-.431" bullets vs. .444-.445" in older guns suited for .427-.428" bullets.

    IF you have a chamber neck which is too tight to provide safe release clearance with a cast bullet of correct diameter to fit your barrel, the solution is to order the Accurate 43-200QL. This bullet has a reduced diameter shank, which provides safe release clearance in old, tight chamber necks. It also has an enlarged nose flange north of the crimp groove, in the manner of an RWS "stop-ring", which can then be sized to the exact diameter required to fit your barrel, without affecting the driving band diameters.

    The late John Kort worked with Tom Ellis at Accurate and I to design 43-200QL, which John tested with black powder as well as Alliant RL7 smokeless in original Winchester 1873 rifles having barrel groove diameters as large as .435", and it always shot well. The 43-200Q bullet is an earlier design with conventional small lube ring for use with smokeless powder. The 43-200QL as revised by John Kort has adequate lube capacity to prevent foul-out with full charge black powder loads using SPG lube and is the design I now recommend.

    An alloy of 1:30 or 1:40 tin-lead is also recommended with either smokeless or black powder.

    The best technical solution is to MEASURE the NECK of your chamber, by tapping a pure lead .45 cal. round ball into the NECK of the chamber only, then tap it out and measure with a micrometer. Then measure the neck diameter of a DUMMY round assembled with your bullet and compare. The neck diameter of the loaded cartridge must be 0.0015" less than the chamber neck for safe release and springback. If the fit of the cartridge is too tight, you must either ream the chamber neck, or use a bullet with smaller diameter shank to provide safe clearance.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	43-200QL-D.jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	22.3 KB 
ID:	220536
    Last edited by Outpost75; 05-16-2018 at 11:56 AM.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Dawsonville, GA
    Posts
    73
    Just a thought. You can cast a larger bullet with your current mold if you "Beagle" it. You will have to get a .431 sizing die or hone out the one you have.

    Instructions for Beagling and honing a size die are on this site. Use the search feature.

  8. #8
    Black Powder 100%


    cajun shooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Livingston, La. 20 miles east of Baton Rouge, La.
    Posts
    4,410
    I'll have to disagree with your using the word "ALL" when speaking of the Rossi 44wcf rifles. I've owned at least 6-7 in the past 15 years in that caliber that had bbls that fell into the proper range for the caliber at .427-.428. The one that I have at this time slugged out at .427 I was a good friend of John's and also worked with him on many 44wcf bullets. John was a Marlin man through and through and knew that they used the 44 mag bbls on all of the 44 caliber rifles and that they called for larger bullets.
    John had one Marlin 44wcf that was very accurate with my Accurate bullet,the
    43-210 sized at .429 with BHN 10 alloy.
    A lot of shooters get into trouble today with shooting a bullet that is way too hard and it fails to have any obturation. I've never had any problems with keeping my 44wcf loads with bullets in the BHN 10-12 range. Later David
    Shooter of the "HOLY BLACK" SASS 81802 AKA FAIRSHAKE; NRA ; BOLD; WARTHOG;Deadwood Marshal;Bayou Bounty Hunter; So That his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat; 44 WCF filled to the top, 210 gr. bullet

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    over the hill, out in the woods and far away
    Posts
    5,638
    Cajun Shooter, what "vintage" are your Rossi rifles?
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master




    Echo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Tucson AZ
    Posts
    4,317
    Quote Originally Posted by CamoWhamo View Post
    2% tin, 6% antimony, 92% lead
    I assume you have a supply of that Magnum Metal. Way harder than necessary, for the 44-40. cut 50/50 w/Pb, and add another 1% Sn. Or go to WW+2%Sn, which is about what my suggestion will give you.
    Echo
    USAF Ret
    DPS, 2600
    NRA Benefactor
    O&U
    One of the most endearing sights in the world is the vision of a naked good-looking woman leaving the bedroom to make breakfast. Bolivar Shagnasty (I believe that Lazarus Long also said it, but I can't find any record of it.)

  11. #11
    Larry and Echo,

    I buy clean ready-made alloys from a foundry here (i'm in Australia) and they make several different alloys.
    Hardball which is the aforementioned 2% tin, 6% antimony, 92% lead
    Lyman #2 (5% tin, 5% antimony, 90% lead)
    Tin/Lead mixes in 1:16, 1:20, 1:25, 1:30
    Linotype
    Pure Lead.

    Working with what is available to me what alloy should i buy to cut my existing stock of the hardball (i have about 30 pounds of it here) and in future what should i be buying.

    I might be able to buy pure tin. I need to ask the foundry if they have it.

    Is your suggestion for softer alloy specific to the .44-40 or is it across the board? I'm also casting for .30-30, .303 Brit, .357, .375, .38-55 and .44-40.

    Thanks

  12. #12
    Boolit Master mehavey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    250
    When running traditional BP velocities/pressures, soft is your friend along w/ fast(er) powders when possibly undersize. (30-1/BN: 6-8)

    - This works up to 1,200fps or so (rifle barrel velocities) and using Lyman 50/50 lube

    - Between 1250-1500, #2(BN:15) (and/or Hardball) using Lyman 50/50

    - Getting into the 1,700-2,200 regime (i.e.the 30 calibers), #2/Hardball and ALOX



    Rules of beginning-thumb only: (No plan survives 1st contact)
    Last edited by mehavey; 05-17-2018 at 07:35 AM.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lake Havasu City, Arizona
    Posts
    16,318
    Quote Originally Posted by CamoWhamo View Post
    Larry and Echo,

    I buy clean ready-made alloys from a foundry here (i'm in Australia) and they make several different alloys.
    Hardball which is the aforementioned 2% tin, 6% antimony, 92% lead
    Lyman #2 (5% tin, 5% antimony, 90% lead)
    Tin/Lead mixes in 1:16, 1:20, 1:25, 1:30
    Linotype
    Pure Lead.

    Working with what is available to me what alloy should i buy to cut my existing stock of the hardball (i have about 30 pounds of it here) and in future what should i be buying.

    I might be able to buy pure tin. I need to ask the foundry if they have it.

    Is your suggestion for softer alloy specific to the .44-40 or is it across the board? I'm also casting for .30-30, .303 Brit, .357, .375, .38-55 and .44-40.

    Thanks
    If you can get the tin then my suggestion for the alloy you have to make 94/3/3 alloy remains.

    Next purchase get the Lyman #2 alloy and lead. Then just mix the #2 with 40% lead for the 94/3/3 alloy and you won't need any additional tin. That alloy will work very well "across the board" with the cartridges you mention. The alloy will be well balanced in antimony and tin, will cast well, will have an Ac'd BHN of 14- 16 and if WQ'd will have a BHN of 18 - 22. It's an excellent alloy for smokeless powder loads in all those cartridges. You can also simply add more lead for a softer alloy if wanted.

    Of course for excellent quality match capable rifle bullets the #2 alloy is excellent, it's what I use.

    Also a 1-16 alloy will do very nicely in all those cartridges also up through 1800 fps +/-.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Reverend Al's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Victoria, B.C., Canada
    Posts
    1,155
    I've been shooting a number of different .44-40's over the years, mostly original Winchester '92's and a '73 and have had very good success with the RCBS 200 grain mould. I load them at .430" in all of my .44-40's and that old '73 rifle would keep 10 out of 10 rounds on the 200 yard gong at our local range with 7.5 to 8.0 grains of Unique under that RCBS boolit.
    I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't reached my "Expiry" date!

  15. #15
    Thanks Larry,

    I drained my pot and checked how much alloy I have here. All up I’ve got 22kg (48lb) of the hardball.
    I did the maths and worked out I can cut that 50:50 with the 1:25 tin:lead and the end alloy will be 3:3:94 (actually 2.92% tin and antimony so close enough).

    I look forward to see what the results will be.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check