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Thread: .44 Remington magnum question

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    .44 Remington magnum question

    Have been reloading regular bullets for a while, but about to dive into lead cast. Ive bought 200 grain hard cast for my .44 magnum revolver, they are supposed to have bnh of between 16-18.
    I have Unique powder but I'm not seeing much in the way of info in my manuals. my friend, who has reloaded for years says hes having good luck in his with12 gr. unique. oal 1.554, apx 1350 fps.
    Does this sound right to you folks? Also what other data can you share with me to get me started? Ive heard of leading and don't want to ruin anything.. My bullets are .430 diameter.
    Appreciate any advice you folks might have , also is there a good manual just for hard cast data? Thank you

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    reneck44,

    My 44 Mag load is the 250 gr. Lyman 429421 CB in front of 25 gr. IMR4227 powder with Mag primers at 1350 fps.. This load was a Lyman accuracy load years ago. Based on my observations, i.e. shooting over snow, a small portion of the powder is not burned but appears to protect the base of the CB to prevent base melting. It is a super accurate load with NO BARREL LEADING whatsoever. You can shoot it all day long and just dry-brush the barrel afterwards. More recent Lyman manuals reduced the load to 24 gr. IMR4227, but I still use 25 gr. IMR4227. Lube; Alox 50/50 2138F/beeswax.

    Best regards,

    CJR
    Last edited by CJR; 05-11-2018 at 09:34 AM. Reason: added lube

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Leading will not ruin a barrel. It just needs to be removed and you're good as new. .430 is a good place to start.
    The only amendment the Democrats support is the 5th.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Leading is most often caused by bullets which are undersized and too hard to upset.

    Revolver bullets should always be sized to cylinder throat diameter, not to barrel groove diameter.

    The +0.001" over groove stuff you hear is simply a standardized guess.

    If you want accurate loads which perform well in the field, check your cylinder throats with gage pins and size bullets to that diameter.

    Hard cast is simply marketing BS because it makes pretty bullets which ship well without damage. You will get much better results with softer bullets of 10-13 BHN. Elmer Keith used 1:20 tin-lead, to approximate that hardness a 50-50 mixture of wheelweights and plumbers lead with 2% tin added works well.

    While the 11 grain load of Unique you mentioned is not unsafe, it IS maximum. I consider 10 grains of Unique or 11 grains of Herco a full charge load.
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  5. #5
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    Lyman #2 lists a 200 gr boolit load for unique start 11.0 gr @ 1004 fps to max load 13.2 gr vel 1265 fps.

    For IMR 4227 - 22.0 gr @ 1038 to max 24.5 @ 1201 for 200gr boolit

    If you are going to shoot cast get the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook if you can.
    Last edited by Minerat; 05-11-2018 at 10:56 PM. Reason: Spelling
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  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I suggest you start at 9.0g of Unique, and work up if you want higher velocity. .430 is a good place to start, but as other have said, measure your cylinder throats to see what size would work best. If you are really concerned about leading, use Trail Boss powder and I am quite sure you will see none! I use Trail Boss with boolits that are .431, Bhn 11, and yet my Smith 629 cylinder throats measure .4285!! For those that wonder why I don't size my boolits to .429; I did for a while, and with Trail Boss, saw no difference, and since I have a passel of Rugers that "need" .431, I stick to that diameter.
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  7. #7
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    The key for shooting cast bullets in a revolver is proper bullet to gun fit. You should measure your cylinder throats and slug your barrel. This helps you two ways; first it will tell you if all your cylinder throats are the same size and that they are bigger than the groove diameter, And second measuring the cylinder throats (slugging, ball gauges, pin/plug gauges) will give you a good starting point for sizing your bullets.

    INMO 18 BHN is unnecessarily too hard and diameter is more important. I started casting with surplus wheel weights (approx. 12 BHN) way before I got a hardness tester and produced some pretty hot cast bullet loads with very little leading (21-23 gr WC820), but my Ruger's cylinder throats measured .431" and I sized my bullets to .431".

    I've used Unique for a lot in my cast bullet, 44 Magnum loads and started each round of testing with my manuals' starting loads; about 10.0 gr. for a 200 gr. cast bullet...
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    Be careful of undersized overly hard store bought boolits. The loads above using Unique should be plenty safe
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  9. #9
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    redneck44

    I've shot thousands of 200 and 240 gr hard cast commercial bullets sized .429 and .430 through numerous 44 Magnum revolvers and rifles. Accuracy has always been good if not excellent. The 200 gr you have sized .430 will probably shoot just fine.

    I normally load the 240s over 8.5 gr Unique and the 200s over 10 gr Unique. Both are pleasant loads to shoot.

    The only problem with "leading" has been with some of the bullets from some makers because of the hard wax so called "lube" some commercial casters use. If I got any leading a simple TL of LLA (as per the directions....a light coat and let dry thoroughly) solved the leading problem. If you get any leading I suggest just using the light coat of LLA.
    Larry Gibson

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  10. #10
    Boolit Bub
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    Thank you all. Larry, what is tl, and lla?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by redneck44 View Post
    Thank you all. Larry, what is tl, and lla?
    Tumble lube and Lee liquid alox.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by redneck44 View Post
    My friend, who has reloaded for years says hes having good luck in his with12 gr. unique.
    I personally don't like to use Unique for a high velocity load because of pressure spikes. I baby my 29/629's for longevity.

    I shoot reduced loads 99% of the time, reserving near maximum loads for hunting and with a slower burning powder like 2400, 296, H110, AA#9 ect.
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  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    "Elmer Keith used 1:20 tin-lead, to approximate that hardness a 50-50 mixture of wheelweights and plumbers lead with 2% tin added works well."

    In the books I have and the articles I have read by Elmer Keith he recommends 1-16 tin and lead. In his chapter about working up the Keith 44 Magnum load in his Sixguns book he said he used 1-16 tin and lead.
    Last edited by 44MAG#1; 05-12-2018 at 08:10 AM.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    In order to reflect the hardness comparison keep in mind that 1-10 is about 11.5 BHN per Cast Bullets by EH Harrison. 1-14 is about 11.2 per Handloader #183. 1-20 is about 10 BHN per those same references. So the difference between the two referenced previously is 1 BHN.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bannister View Post
    In order to reflect the hardness comparison keep in mind that 1-10 is about 11.5 BHN per Cast Bullets by EH Harrison. 1-14 is about 11.2 per Handloader #183. 1-20 is about 10 BHN per those same references. So the difference between the two referenced previously is 1 BHN.
    I am more than aquainted with the hardness levels of tin and lead alloys. The reference was to what Keith used.
    He used 1-16. Now, I am not going to be foolish enough to say he never ever at all in any way in any circumstance used 1-20. If he did in handguns of any velocity he rarely if ever mentioned it. I followed Keith from around '71 to just before he had the stroke in December and have read a great deal of his work.
    Also I have two very old American Rifleman mags that he had article in.
    I never questioned whether the BHN is suitable or not and will not do that. Most alloy BHN's can be made to work. Ive shot 1-16 at Keith velocity levels in the 44 Mag with no problems so I would say .5 or even 1 BHN either way would not make much difference at all if it even does.
    I use mostly 15 BHN alloy now but have used alloys from 22 to 25 BHN quite abit.
    Keith also recommended sizing bullets .429" too but now we know that one cant hit a bull in the behind unless he has his throats reamed polished size his bullets to throat diameter.
    Amazing isnt it.

  16. #16
    Boolit Bub
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    I have to admit, I don't what the last 3 posts are about, as Im new new to loading hard cast. Thanks bdicki for the info. I did load a dozen today at 11 gr. uniuque 1.548 oal in the crimp ring. ill try them tomorrow, and let you know. thanks guys.

  17. #17
    Boolit Bub Catpop's Avatar
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    Starting with throat diameter is a good place to begin. But thats only a start! Boolits should be .002 to .004 over groove diameter and brn should be 7-11. Of course it is a vicious circle from there. If no leading you are home free, but if not, the throats may have to be opened to match boolit to to groove.
    My new SBH has a .429 groove and a .4315 throat and I use a flat base 265 gr Kieth .432 boolits of 7 brn with only a touch of leading at 1235 fps with Unique. When I get time, I plan on opening the throats to .433 and using .433 boolits. Then I’ll be there!

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catpop View Post
    Starting with throat diameter is a good place to begin. But thats only a start! Boolits should be .002 to .004 over groove diameter and brn should be 7-11. Of course it is a vicious circle from there. If no leading you are home free, but if not, the throats may have to be opened to match boolit to to groove.
    My new SBH has a .429 groove and a .4315 throat and I use a flat base 265 gr Kieth .432 boolits of 7 brn with only a touch of leading at 1235 fps with Unique. When I get time, I plan on opening the throats to .433 and using .433 boolits. Then I’ll be there!
    Question--Why open the throats to .433 when your throats are already .4315 and your bbl is .429?
    It's all chicken, even the beak!

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master Tatume's Avatar
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  20. #20
    Boolit Master 44Blam's Avatar
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    You know with PB boolits, I like tailboss. So easy to shoot. And once you've shot a few rounds of it, you can tell when someone else is shooting it - it's pretty distinctive in sound and smell.
    I load three loads for 44 mag. They are trailboss, aliant 2400 and win 296. BUT I'm trying to go through the rest of my 296 and just load TB and 2400. It's mainly because I can use both of those powders for other guns.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check