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Thread: Here is another reason muzzzle loaders are so much fun.....

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Here is another reason muzzzle loaders are so much fun.....

    Well yesterday I took Rosie the 45 caliber under hammer slug gun out to the range to put s few more bullets down the barrel. Last time was about 6 weeks ago and I was hitting the shots inside a 4 inch circle at 200 yards. This was with peep sights and nothing had been changed or adjusted since then!

    First 4 shots were NOT even on the backer, let alone on my home made shoot-n-see target in the middle of a plain white backer on a new cardboard holder! So I aimed higher, nothing, lower aim point, nothing. I had already checked my dope book and all was the same: I.E. bullet, lube, wad, powder charge, powder type and height setting on my Lee Shaver tang sight! So I ran the eye piece up 5, nothing, down 5 then another 5 and nothing and finally had another shooter watch the impact for me and he said I was too high. So I aimed at the bottom of the white backer and the bullet showed an impact just above the aim point and right in the middle! So I raised the eye piece 3 and NOTHING showed? Went back to original setting and same impact point. Aimed slightly higher......nothing? So any ideas of what could be happening?
    John

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy kaiser's Avatar
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    I think you have demonstrated why checking sights at a shorter range (25 to 50 yards) will save chasing a load at long range and wasting ammo. (I've done this a few times, as well!) If you are impacting higher than point of aim, you need to lower the rear sight, not raise it (move it in the direction you want the bullet to go). Good luck.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master




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    It is called "Murphy's law" and it can be broken.
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    Boolit Grand Master pietro's Avatar
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    .

    Raising the FRONT sight height will lower the point-of-impact; Lowering the sight height will raise the POI.

    Raising the REAR sight will raise the POI; Lowering the sight will lower the POI.

    They work opposite each other because they are at opposite ends of the rifle/barrel.


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  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by RED333 View Post
    It is called "Murphy's law" and it can be broken.
    Murphy's law is an absolute, that can not be broken.
    If anything can go wrong, it WILL go wrong!
    Political correctness is a national suicide pact.

    I am a sovereign individual, accountable
    only to God and my own conscience.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Where did you get your Lee Shaver peep?
    Last edited by jdfoxinc; 05-04-2018 at 11:55 PM. Reason: #$/^;&>[( autocorrect
    QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES?

  7. #7
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    the place for all of lee's great tang and peep sights - i use them all exclusively ...

    http://stores.leeshavergunsmithing.com/

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I have the idea of moving the front/rear sights figured out pretty well, at least most of the time? As I noted nothing had changed sooooooo I figured the impact would be close to the same as before and for some reason there was not hardly any dust being thrown up from the impact. The guy helping me could not see the impact when the targets were missed which did not help at all. I think I'll back up to 100 yards to see what happens as the berm there is "dustyier" so I will be able to figure out why the weirdness.

    I also checked to see if the front or rear sights were loose, both okay and the vertical was still tight on the rear so there should have been no change? I have a front sight level built in so I don't believe there was any canting involved? Maybe it was just Murphy's law?
    John

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldracer View Post
    I have the idea of moving the front/rear sights figured out pretty well, at least most of the time? As I noted nothing had changed sooooooo I figured the impact would be close to the same as before and for some reason there was not hardly any dust being thrown up from the impact. The guy helping me could not see the impact when the targets were missed which did not help at all. I think I'll back up to 100 yards to see what happens as the berm there is "dustyier" so I will be able to figure out why the weirdness.

    I also checked to see if the front or rear sights were loose, both okay and the vertical was still tight on the rear so there should have been no change? I have a front sight level built in so I don't believe there was any canting involved? Maybe it was just Murphy's law?
    John
    fire a couple at 25 yards then a couple at 50 yards then go to 100 yards ----- something changed since your last shoot --- need to slow down and find out what it is/was

  10. #10
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

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    For long range shooting with BPCR, I have found changes in light conditions from morning to afternoon could vary by as much as eleven minutes.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    As I noted the sight setting was the same so it is possible I was not seeing the target correctly and the shots were missing because of that? I plan to back up to 50 yards which is a tick mark above the tang sight zero to see what happens and then go to 100 on the same day after 5 or 10 rounds fired, if they hit. If there is enough time I will then move out to 200 on the same day if possible. I'll let every body know next week.
    John

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    Had a good rifle get bumped hard enough to knock one of its two "swing-away" scope mounts partially away; took 2-3 rounds to figure out what happened, fixed it then 2-3 more to verify zero again. Down side of other family members having access to your gear!

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Hope you find a reason....otherwise it will not be a fun gun to own.
    Don Verna


  14. #14
    Boolit Master


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    What Waksupi said
    Clouds moving across during a match can change impact 18 inches at 500
    Don't buy nuthing you can't take home

    Joel 3:10

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    For long range shooting with BPCR, I have found changes in light conditions from morning to afternoon could vary by as much as eleven minutes.
    Wow - almost a foot at 100yards ? thats a lot ....not challenging this at all just - what is doing it? - I reckon I have caught me self for four to six inches off at 100yards with open sights - is it worse of a problem with a peep ? does it get worse at long range - haze etc ? I dont shoot past 600yards but 11 minutes - thats six feet!!! I can sight in on the farm and I always do it at the time of day and shooting same direction as the match I am going to attend - always believed it made a difference.

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master


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    It definitely gets worse at longer ranges. Not only do you have POI changes because of shifting light positions, you get haze, wind shift (which can change elevation and/or windage) and MIRAGE.
    Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!

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  17. #17
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    Wow - almost a foot at 100yards ? thats a lot ....not challenging this at all just - what is doing it? - I reckon I have caught me self for four to six inches off at 100yards with open sights - is it worse of a problem with a peep ? does it get worse at long range - haze etc ? I dont shoot past 600yards but 11 minutes - thats six feet!!! I can sight in on the farm and I always do it at the time of day and shooting same direction as the match I am going to attend - always believed it made a difference.
    Remember I said long range.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    Remember I said long range.
    You might laugh but 600 is long range for this ole rabbit trapper

    And I guess I am conscious of least half of your 11 minutes at shortrange (100yards)
    Never thought a headwind would make much diference either till I shot into one - never thought being the operative words there - I drove trucks enough that one shoulda been a no brainer!
    Last edited by indian joe; 05-07-2018 at 07:53 PM.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Check that all screws are tight. Humidity also has an effect on POA.
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  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    After the past few posts about weather and such I did some thinking and as far as I can remember the temperatures were close to the same, wind was about the same, 5 knots from the left and since we are in the desert sort of landscape the humidity was about the same. The front globe sight was the same and had not moved at all and the screws on the tang sight were tight and the tang sight had not bent or moved. When I keep the rifle in the hard case the tang is folded onto the top of the Allen action and barrel and when folded it lays right in the center of the action. I plan to go to the range tomorrow to see what happens starting at 50 yards again and then outwards. I'll let everyone know what I find.
    John

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check