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Thread: 32 Colt Police Positive

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    "The .32 S&W Long, also known as 7.65x23mm, is a straight-walled, centerfire, rimmed handgun cartridge, based on the earlier .32 S&W cartridge. It was introduced in 1896 for Smith & Wesson's first-model Hand Ejector revolver. Colt called it the .32 Colt New Police in revolvers it made chambered for the cartridge."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.32_S%26W_Long

  2. #22
    Boolit Bub
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    Thanks for the input. Picked up some 32 S&W Longs, not shot them yet, but they fit like a glove.

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy JoeJames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullthing View Post
    Thanks for the input. Picked up some 32 S&W Longs, not shot them yet, but they fit like a glove.
    I chronographed some Fiocchi brand 32 wadcutters, and they were running 560, 597 and 597 fps in my 4" S&W kitgun.

  4. #24
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Here is my chronograph data of typical .32 S&W Long loads fired in revolvers and in a cobbled up "rook rifle."

    .32 S&W Long Factory Vs. Handloads In Revolvers and H&R “Bunny Rifle”

    Remington cases, Federal 200 primers in all handloads:

    Ammo Type________________Colt 2”__________Colt 4”___________H&R18”

    PMC 98 LRN factory_________687, 13 Sd_______797, 17Sd________945, 16 Sd
    Highest velocity factory load__103 ft-lbs._______138 ft.lbs.________194 ft.-lbs.

    Remington 98 LRN factory_____645, 20 Sd______729, 12 Sd________899, 11 Sd
    Western 98 LRN factory (1960s)_643, 19 Sd_____658, 22 Sd________912, 17 Sd
    Privi-Partisan 98 LRN__________656, 28 Sd______675, 11 Sd_______917, 21 Sd

    Accurate 31-087T, 2.5 BE______662, 16 Sd______780, 22 Sd_______1000, 15 Sd
    Shoots to the fixed sights______84-ft.-lbs._______117 ft.-lbs.______193 ft.-lbs.
    Accurate 31-090B, 2.5 BE______731, 26 Sd_______773, 11 Sd______1066, 16 Sd
    Shoots to the fixed sights_______106 ft.-lbs.______119 ft.lbs.______227 ft.-lbs.

    These charges should not be exceeded in pre-WW2 revolvers.
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  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy JoeJames's Avatar
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    My hand loads for the 32S&W Long shot in my S&W 32 Hand ejector 5th, and my S&W 631 32 H&R Magnum, all of course in 32 S&W Long cases. Bullseye powder, and Trail Boss (I was interested in how Trail Boss would do) and 98 grain lead SWC's. The 631 is a 4", and the hand ejector is 4 1/4". The velocity was therefore quite similar:

    2.0 grains of Bullseye - 659, 642, 665, 559, 641, and 672 fps
    2.1* grains of Bullseye - 694, 681, 689, 636, 681, and 684 fps
    2.2 grains of Bullseye - 625, 757, 760, 702, 741, and 721 fps
    * appeared to be the most accurate load

    1.5 grains of Trail Boss - 527, 520, 555, 511, and 493 fps
    2.0** grains of Trail Boss - 694, 687, 645, 705, and 673 fps

    ** 2.0 grains of Trail Boss appears to fill the case to just shy of the swc base. It was also the most accurate.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Saw really nice looking Colt Police Positive with 1905 patent date. Made around 1910-1912 by serial number. Barrel is marked 32 COLT. They didn’t have any 32 S&W Long to try and see if it fit, does anyone know with this information if this is chambered for the 32Colt New Police/32S&W Long or the hard to find 32Colt?
    Thanks

  7. #27
    Boolit Master Guesser's Avatar
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    LIMPINGJ 32 Colt will be 32 Colt and 32 Long Colt. The last revolvers chambered in 32 Colt were done in the WW I time frame, I have been told that 1913 was the end. But I have never seen verification of that date. I have a 1910 Police Positive and a 1907 New Pocket/Pocket Positive transition model; marked for both models. Both guns are 32 Colt and a pleasure to shoot and no......32 S&W Long Or Short won't chamber in 32 Colt unless the chambers have been reamed to 32 N.P.. I have seen that done a few times, mainly because of ammo availability.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    I would bring it home if I could use 32S&W Long in it. Wish Starline would offer the 32 Colt brass.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    Went by and saw that this revolver was still in the case. With the mention of some owners reaming to use 32 S&W Long by Guesser has anyone done this? Any idea on cost? It would get a nice revolver back in service.

  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LIMPINGJ View Post
    Went by and saw that this revolver was still in the case. With the mention of some owners reaming to use 32 S&W Long by Guesser has anyone done this? Any idea on cost? It would get a nice revolver back in service.
    Rifling bore and groove dimensions of .32 Long Colt are altogether too tight to rechamber the cylinder for .32 S&W Long or Colt New Police, you'd be cramming a .314 bullet down a .300" groove diameter barrel and would likely split the very thin barrel forcing cone on that model in attempting to do so.

    Unless you can substantiate that it really chambered for .32 Colt New Police and not .32 Long Colt, I would let it pass. Chamber diameter of .32 S&W Long and .32 Colt New Police is .338 and the .32 Long Colt .308. Would be easy to verify with plug gages.
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  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks Outpost75, it’s a shame brass is the downfall of these fine revolvers.

  12. #32
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    In point of fact, the specs for the 32 long colt indicate a .318 diameter case, with a .305 bore and a .311 groove. This as compared to a .337 diameter case, a .303 bore and a .312 groove for the 32 New Police. A problem still exists in the path of would-be re-chamberers in that the .32 Long Colt chamber specification was .320, end to end, with no throat. See Page 294 of HANDLOADING by Wm. C Davis, NRA publications 1981. See also SAAMI, Pistols and revolvers, pp 152, 154. I therefore would have no qualms about rechambering a Police Positive to shoot the 32 S&W Long/ 32 New Police, but I would expect accuracy to be pretty poor unless I could find or make some hollow base .312 boolits.
    _________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    The mention once again by Outpost 75 of his “Bunny Rifle” has my addled froggie brain kicking over once again... I really “need” such a gun to make my life complete.

    I had a Winchester low wall (one of the smooth side, leaf mainspring examples) rechambered and its block bushed to CF with the idea of shooting 32 H&R in what had been a 32 rim fire (which of course is the RF equivalent to the old 32 Colt. I got pretty good results out to 50 feet (the length of my range that Summer) loading those little half jacketed 30 Carbine bullets - I think they called them “Plinker” bullets, but it really didn’t seem to like my 3118 bullets in soft lead.

    Anyway, as with all good things, I let it get away from me, but there are still a few of those old 32 RF low walls kicking around, and if I were to recline one with a proper .313” liner...

    Well, the results just might be more gratifying and I might just keep this one.

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  14. #34
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Wish Starline would offer the 32 Colt brass.
    https://www.rccbrass.com/product/32-long-colt/
    Regards
    John

  15. #35
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rintinglen View Post
    In point of fact, the specs for the 32 long colt indicate a .318 diameter case, with a .305 bore and a .311 groove. This as compared to a .337 diameter case, a .303 bore and a .312 groove for the 32 New Police. A problem still exists in the path of would-be re-chamberers in that the .32 Long Colt chamber specification was .320, end to end, with no throat. See Page 294 of HANDLOADING by Wm. C Davis, NRA publications 1981. See also SAAMI, Pistols and revolvers, pp 152, 154. I therefore would have no qualms about rechambering a Police Positive to shoot the 32 S&W Long/ 32 New Police, but I would expect accuracy to be pretty poor unless I could find or make some hollow base .312 boolits.
    Thanks for the corrected info. My old eyeballs were looking at dimensions of the .32 Long rimfire, my bad...
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  16. #36
    Boolit Master Guesser's Avatar
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    I've slugged the bore on a 1910 Police Positive 32 Colt; it won't chamber 32 S&W; and I slugged the bore on a 1917 Police Positive in 32 Police CTG (32 S&W). The slugs from both measured the same using a 0-1" micrometer, .312". I have cast bullets, heeled style for 32 Colt, the bore riding segment of the bullet measures .313 and I size all my bullets for 32 S&W and Long, 32 H&R Magnum, 327 F.M. and 32-20 .313. Based on my guns and the bore slugs I see no reason not to rechamber if one is so inclined. I'm not inclined as I have a very good supply of 32 Short Colt and 32 Long Colt ammunition, brass and bullets for my Colts so chambered.

  17. #37
    Boolit Grand Master
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    “The bore riding segment of the bullet measures .313.”

    The bore riding section of the bullet, if present, fits between the rifling lands without being substantially engraved by them. The diameter of the barrel between the lands is the bore diameter, thus “riding the bore.” The bore diameter in this case being about .305.”

    The part of the bullet that measures .313” approximates or slightly exceeds the barrel’s measured groove diameter. It does not ride the bore.
    Last edited by 35remington; 09-09-2019 at 10:04 PM.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master Guesser's Avatar
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    35remington.........Thanks for educating me. I've been casting since 1956 and just went with what worked, kinda went along to git along. I never bothered with terminology since in my mind I knew how my guns worked. Obviously I have been deceiving myself. Doing it that way, if something didn't work, I would change an aspect of the operation and try again until it did work.
    Thank you for the brief, concise description and explanation. Bore riding??? Now I understand; thanks again.

  19. #39
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Well, if things were working, the terminology is not as relevant, but sometimes it is helpful in making what you are doing understandable when explained.

  20. #40
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by rintinglen View Post
    In point of fact, the specs for the 32 long colt indicate a .318 diameter case, with a .305 bore and a .311 groove. This as compared to a .337 diameter case, a .303 bore and a .312 groove for the 32 New Police. A problem still exists in the path of would-be re-chamberers in that the .32 Long Colt chamber specification was .320, end to end, with no throat. See Page 294 of HANDLOADING by Wm. C Davis, NRA publications 1981. See also SAAMI, Pistols and revolvers, pp 152, 154. I therefore would have no qualms about rechambering a Police Positive to shoot the 32 S&W Long/ 32 New Police, but I would expect accuracy to be pretty poor unless I could find or make some hollow base .312 boolits.
    I'm glad to see this information. I just came across a 32 Colt with the barrel marked "Police Positive B .32" with three patent dates to Oct. 5, 1926. The frame logo has the prancing Colt with lettering "Colt's New Police" and a serial number that dates to 1908. The barrel is 2", which does not seem right as 1908 guns had at minimum a 2.5" barrel. Also the chamber mouths in the cylinder are .315 to .317 diameter. That leads me to believe that the gun was originally chambered in 32 Colt but later bored out to 32 S&W and rebarelled. Does this sound correct? I haven't shot it yet, and am not certain that I want to as the minimum cylinder wall is .052" thick.

    Can anybody give me any information that might suggest if I am correct?

    Thanks,
    Chuck

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check