.44 magnum dies that don't overwork brass?

[columrick]

I have not experienced the issue I am going to describe nearly as much as any other straight walled pistol cartridge.

I recently began reloading for a 44 magnum levergun. Obtained Lee 4 die set, as I really like using the FCD with all pistol rounds. Just much more consistent, and somewhat easier IMO, than using a crimping lip integrated in a seating die.

I'm using recycled Federal brass. Fired brass measures apr. 1.271 oal. Once through the Lee resizer, the length grows to 1.278. I haven't had other straight walled cases lengthen that much on resizing. Measured the 15 cases I fired, after firing, then after sizing; same results.

I was hoping if someone can direct me to a resizing die that doesn't overwork the brass so much. I think stretching the brass .007 every time is going to shorten their overall useful life. Moreover, it would not have to expand as much upon ignition in the chamber. I don't think the FCD will have much effect on the final product, as the resized cases slip right through the FCD without tension. That leads me to believe the FCD cabide ring diameter is larger than the resizer ring. Actually, I haven't looked at the FCD to see if there's a carbide ring in it. The semi caliber FCD dies have them, so I made an assumption.

The other long straight walled case I reload is 357 mag, and it doesn't stretch nearly the same amount as the 44 mag cases.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Nueces]

I believe most modern dies to be set up for loading j words, meaning smaller case necks than we need for boolits. There is one easy way to get a larger sizing die for boolits, the Lee carbide factory crimp die, with the crimper part removed. I bought one for most of my straight cases and found them to offer a useful larger diameter sized case.

[mdi]

I've been reloading .44 magnum since '88 to feed my 5, 44 Magnums. I use Lee sizing dies (my Lee FCD for handguns now resides in a landfill somewhere in S. Oregon) and my brass does not grow. I've got some Federal brass that I keep for my T-Rex loads in my Puma, and although I have 9-10 reloadings on them, they haven't gotten any longer...

Have you experienced any "early deaths" of your brass, or are you just taking "preventative measures"?

[columrick]

Preventive. Just a couple reloads in 44 right now.

Shortens and widens on firing. Lengthens and thins quite a bit on resizing. Other straight walled cases I'm doing doing have such a substantial disparity between the two.

[mdi]

Sometimes we get way ahead of ourselves when reloading and address problems we don't or won't have...

[ShooterAZ]

I have been using RCBS 44 dies since forever, and have had no problems at all. I don't use pistol FCD dies, ever.

[Sgt Red Leg]

OK, I'll bite and show my ignorance - what is a FCD die?

Sarge

[lightman]

OK, I'll bite and show my ignorance - what is a FCD die?

Sarge

I think they are referring to the Lee factory crimp die.

[lightman]

I always felt that Dillon dies sized the brass more than the others. This is just a thought as I've never tried to measure any of my sized brass. I would expect most of the others would be about equal. I only have a few Dillon dies and the brass seems to last about as long as any other.

[Nueces]

OK, I'll bite and show my ignorance - what is a FCD die?

Sarge

FCD = Factory Crimp Die, by Lee.

The carbide type, for many straight wall handgun rounds, incorporates a carbide sizing ring at the mouth, which is designed to prevent oversized loaded ammo when used as a last step. A crimper feature is installed, too. If you remove the crimper, you are left with a carbide sizer which is a bit larger than a standard sizer. That can be useful for loading larger diameter boolits.

Lee also makes collet crimpers for rifle and some pistol rounds. These do nothing but close a collet rim about the case neck, to crimp the neck. They are activated by contact with the shell holder, so are case length specific. One of the fine features of these collet crimpers is that neck diameter can vary widely due to wall thickness and bullet diameter, and the FCD can accommodate that variation.

For many moons, Lee has referred to both categories as Factory Crimp Dies, thus contributing to long standing confusion.

[EDG]

You can over work brass because your cylinder chambers are too large allowing the brass to expand too much.
Your die can be smaller than necessary.
Or both can be a problem.

A barrel lap and diamond paste might open up the carbide ring of a carbide sizer but it would be a tough lapping operation.
You might experiment on a steel sizer. There are a lot of left over .44 Mag steel sizers that can be spin polished on a lathe. It would be even better if they were lapped with an abrasive and a $10 barrel lap on a lathe to give maybe .002 too .004 sizing under bullet size.
With this setup the final dimension is easy to sneak up on.

This guy Rick Averill will show you how it is done.

https://rickaverill.com/projects-pas...eloading-dies/

[mdi]

OK, I'll bite and show my ignorance - what is a FCD die?

Sarge

https://leeprecision.com/reloading-d...ory-crimp-die/ I'm not a "Lee Hater" and I don't really care what tools some reloaders use, but I do object to new reloaders being told an FCD for handguns will solve all their problems.

The Lee FCD is a "post crimping sizing die" that covers up any mistakes in reloading handgun cartridges. I tried one and it now resides in a landfill somewhere in So. Oregon as it ruined my perfectly sized bullets. For my semi-autos, I have been reloading 45 ACP (for 2 guns) since '90 and 9mm (for 3 guns) since '93 and have never once needed to resize my handloads after I finished them. If for some reason a round would not chamber properly, I found out why and fixed the problem, not cover it up with a "fix all sizing die". Ninety nine percent of an chambering problems I encountered were fixed with simple die adjustments...

Again not a Lee Hater (I have bunches of Lee dies, tools, presses, et.) and don't care what tools you use, just don't give a new reloader a "cover up" in the name of good reloading practices...

[Mal Paso]

The RCBS Carbide Cowboy 44 Special Die Set does Mag as well and was designed for lead although I opened my sizer a couple thousandths.

If I remember right the limit of elastic deformation in 44 brass is about .002", beyond that it stretches. My sizer die makes Starline Brass .428" on the inside for .431" boolits. .001" just to make sure I have the .002" of tension. The expander just bells the mouth.

I pin gauged the brass just now to make sure. Don't have a ball mic to check the brass thickness anymore or my notes.

The sizing die is tight on the .450"- pin. Brass mics .452 and pins .428" after sizing. I thought brass was .010" thick, I'm measuring .012".

The mind is the first thing to go then it's ... ah ...

[columrick]

The rifle is a Rem-Marlin, so I'm going to assume the chamber is generously sized (based on all the issues I've found online). Anyway, the brass is being overworked between firing and resizing, so I'll tinker just a bit.

On another note, the loads I assembled for initial fun and testing consisted of Nosler 240gr JSP, 19gr Alliant 2400, WLP primers, 1.61 overall length. Velocity ran around 1625 fps. I was very pleased with the consistency. Magnetospeed stated a SD of 11 and ES of 30-ish fps across 10 rounds fired, starting with a cold barrel.

...not a Lee Hater (I have bunches of Lee dies, tools, presses, et.) and don't care what tools you use, just don't give a new reloader a "cover up" in the name of good reloading practices...

I use the FCD to separate the seating and crimping procedures, instead of using one die for the job. I found better consistency, at least for me. I agree to a degree with the tool making up for a deficiency elsewhere, but with most of the rounds I now load, the carbide ring part doesn't do as much as it did before. I like em, and I'll continue using them.

[Walter Laich]

I built an annealer and will run the brass through after 5 or so reloadings

makes the brass last longer by softening the mouth to prevent cracks.

[JimB..]

Have you considered just neck sizing it since you’re loading for just one gun? I think the issue is likely a generous chamber, so just leave the brass big and call it a day.

[columrick]

Have you considered just neck sizing it since you’re loading for just one gun? I think the issue is likely a generous chamber, so just leave the brass big and call it a day.

Not considered that. I'll give it a try. That would also center the cartridge in the chamber better. Thanks.

[Moonie]

For my 45 Colt loads I only size the portion of the brass that holds the boolit and I keep the brass segregated to only that firearm. This reduces the working of the brass and keeps the back of the brass closer to cylinder size.