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Thread: Iver Johnson NFA ?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    Iver Johnson NFA ?

    Prior to 1934 Gun Control Act there were shotgun pistols on the market. They were
    made by H&R, Stevens and several other lesser known companies. I have been trying
    to find a picture and the model name for the ones IJ made. I have found everything
    but,and have some parts that I think are IJ from one of these guns. I don't have the
    action and am guessing it is IJ by comparing checkering to guns of that period. Anyone
    fimilar with these guns?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Game Getter By Marbles I believe, is what you are looking for a PD I worked for had one for a pest gun, shot it a lot mostly for fun. Check out Arms of the World 1911.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    Game Getter is Marbles, I'm looking for single shot pistols made by Iver Johnson. They were
    chambered for shotgun shells and made illegal under 1934 act.

  4. #4
    Drm50,

    Ithaca referred to their version of this style of shotgun as the Ithaca Auto & Burglar Gun. I am certain that other manufacturers most likely offered a similar design, but cannot find any references other than Ithaca's product.

    PB

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    NoZombies's Avatar
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    I've seen one in person, but it was years ago, and I don't recall what IJ called the gun. The one I handled was pretty similar to the H&R handi-gun.
    Nozombies.com Practical Zombie Survival

    I collect all things .32. If you have something you don't need, please let me know!

  6. #6
    Found a couple of pics illustrating Ithaca and H&R versions. It is interesting to note that H&R cataloged their model as a "Handy Gun". Still haven't found any references to the Iver Johnson product.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    PB

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I believe I have an action and somewhere a stock and forend for one. I can look around and send pics if it will help.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
    Prior to 1934 Gun Control Act there were shotgun pistols on the market. They were
    made by H&R, Stevens and several other lesser known companies. I have been trying
    to find a picture and the model name for the ones IJ made. I have found everything
    but,and have some parts that I think are IJ from one of these guns. I don't have the
    action and am guessing it is IJ by comparing checkering to guns of that period. Anyone
    fimilar with these guns?
    I believe Ithaca marketed the "Auto and Burglary" which was essentially a pistol gripped double barrel pistol in .410 or 20ga. H&R had the Handy Gun, Marbles the Game Getter. I'm not aware of a pre-1934 factory short barrel from Stevens, but I've seen variants done after the fact or after 1934.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Stevens made some of their pistols in .44 XL shot with smooth bores. I've handled a few of them over the years.

    Sadly many of these were destroyed. Today they would only be a $5 tax stamp.
    Nozombies.com Practical Zombie Survival

    I collect all things .32. If you have something you don't need, please let me know!

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    This entire discussion brigs me back to a line of thoughts I had been trying to resolve for a while. GCA '34 declared the firearms described in this thread as NFA regulated properties. Yet today we have revolver, derringers and single shot pistols that are manufactured to fire shotgun shells. This seems contradictory to the older laws and I can't make sense of it. This is just one more example of my not knowing enough about all the various laws and their applications. There is always more to learn, and I"m listening.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    For every law made, there are going to be work arounds. AR-15 and AK-47 pistols, "arm braces", Remington and Mossberg smoothbore pistols over 26", and so on.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, .30 WCF, .45-70 Gov't.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thin Man View Post
    This entire discussion brigs me back to a line of thoughts I had been trying to resolve for a while. GCA '34 declared the firearms described in this thread as NFA regulated properties. Yet today we have revolver, derringers and single shot pistols that are manufactured to fire shotgun shells. This seems contradictory to the older laws and I can't make sense of it. This is just one more example of my not knowing enough about all the various laws and their applications. There is always more to learn, and I"m listening.
    The difference is in the way the law is written, vs intent.

    The guns this thread are about are smoothbore pistols, the modern versions you mentioned are pistols with rifled barrel, but have chambers extended to accept shotshells.
    Nozombies.com Practical Zombie Survival

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  13. #13
    Boolit Master


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    The Devil is always in the details.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Master



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    The devil is the ATF !

  15. #15
    Boolit Master





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    Not illegal in many states as long as registered with the tax paid they are considered AOW for any other weapon tax for transfer $5.00.

    Ithaca auto-burglars were mostly made on their Flues actions. they bring good money from collectors.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Pedersoli now catalogues a look alike to the Ithaca Auto & Burglar in 45 LC/.410

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    There's a crescent model on GB right now.
    Nozombies.com Practical Zombie Survival

    I collect all things .32. If you have something you don't need, please let me know!

  18. #18
    Boolit Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    If H&R still existed, I wonder if they would create a new .410 Handy Gun with 26" overall length? I bet they would sell well.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, .30 WCF, .45-70 Gov't.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master


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    I thought it was the GCA of 1968 that controlled these type of firearms .
    A smooth bore shotgun must have a barrel length of 18".
    A rifle must have a barrel of 16".
    A rifle is intended to be shouldered and held by the forearm..
    A pistol can not have a "functional" forearm.
    Pistols that fire shot shells have rifled barrels and chambered for Centerfire cartridges that are close to the .410 shotshell. As long as the barrel is rifled it is a pistol.
    The firearms you are talking about are smoothbores.
    Exceptions to the above were mostly grandfathered in and controlled by the atf.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master oldhenry's Avatar
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    My parents owned a small neighborhood grocery store during the big depression of 1929. Money was tight for everyone & they had been selling on credit but people were unable to pay. Somehow they took in a J. Stevens .410 pistol in settlement of a high grocery bill. As best I can remember the bbl. was 8-10".
    & the bbl. tilting mechanism was activated by a brass looking button on the right side (about 1/4" dia.). If I'm not mistaken the chamber area of the bbl. was octagon shaped.

    Apparently the firing pin was not original, because it would rupture the primer & cause the action to open occasionally. I inherited the gun & a friend attempted to correct the firing pin problem & to make a long story short he did permanent damage to the hammer pivot pin & silver soldered it in place.

    I traded it for a shotgun in '70. I wish I had it now.......I do most of my own gunsmithing now.

    J. Stevens Arms Co. Chicopee Falls, Mass. was stamped on the top flat of the bbl..

    Henry

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