Round Ball loading the 12ga.

[Mr_Sheesh]

gpidaho - Lots of possibilities; Epoxy (just a tiny dot) or hot glue are the first ones I'd try; You could alternately epoxy the patch to the front of the RB possibly? Or Duro cement, rubber cement, or even thumbtack the patch to the RB might do? (Tired, couldn't sleep, and not sure I have what you're doing right but think I do.) We used to basically pop a 12Ga light field load open, drain the shot, put a .690 soft RB in the cup, and then crimp the petals all the way down against the RB to retain it in the shell; "Pumpkin ball loads", fun and decent accuracy tho its been since 85ish since I did that {sigh} That might retain your ball too, tho the crimp would maybe change pressures slightly higher it never seemed a problem (I was using good solid shotguns tho.)

[longbow]

Gp:

I have only patched into a shotcup so the patch has no chance of coming off leaving hull or in forcing cone as it is protected by the shotcup.

I have however read post by people who have patched round balls into brass bottleneck rifle cartridges and claim that works where I would figure that patch would come off in the neck or throat and I have read posts by people who claim to have had good success patching 12 ga. balls to bore size then load in hull ~ patched as one would for a muzzleloader. Now here I really have trouble accepting that the patch is not stripped off opening crimp or in the forcing cone.

In both cases though there is gas pressure behind the patched ball that may keep that patch tight. In the rifle it is direct pressure and quite a bit of it but even in the shotgun there is leakage past the gas seal and I am betting significant leakage until that gas seal makes it to the bore so maybe there is enough gas leakage/pressure to keep the patch on that ball.

I have not tried either so cannot say from experience whether it will or won't work. I have been planning to try patching a 0.690" or 0.715" RB with heavy cloth to get to bore diameter and give it a try. If it works in shotgun it is a good option. I suspect if it works in smoothbore it will work in rifled gun so possibly a very good option ~ no leading and adjustable fit by changing cloth thickness.

So, lots of words but no facts.

It is certainly worth trying and really no downside. If it works great! If not then you have a few rounds loaded with "loose" round balls so just not accurate. I've shot lots of 0.690" RB's from 12 ga. with poor accuracy so nothing new there!

Patching into a shotcup for smoothbore works quite well but I don't know if that would work for rifled gun. A benefit is that 0.662" and 0.678" RB's are about 1 oz. so lots and lots of 1 oz. slug load data can be used.

longbow

[gpidaho]

Thank you Longbow: I believe we are thinking along the same line here and as you say poor accuracy is most likely the only down side to trying. I'm so new to all this that I haven't found any accuracy yet anyway. LOL. Midway has a sale on right now with the .662 RB mould at a pretty good discount if anyone is interested. I should try getting what I've already bought to shoot before jumping into more expense (I'm bad about that.) Along those lines, I got tired of trying to figure out how to mount a scope on my break-open shotguns and ordered up a fully rifled slug barrel for my Remington 11-87 20ga. It's a good thing that I have no female supervision or I'd be in deep trouble. Gp

[longbow]

I don't recall what you said you were shooting for RB and am too lazy to read back (sorry) but if 0.690" that is one I have had no success with so far. However, BPI does publish load data for 0.690" RB's in shotcups so there are some that fit. That has been my problem is that the 0.690" RB is too bit for any shotcups I can find so petals shear.

0.678" is a good fit in some shotcups and just a bit loose in my Winchester 1 1/8 oz. yellow wads. One wrap of paper or cross patches fixes that but is a bit of a pain.

0.662" RB's are loose in regular shotcups but cloth patching fixes that and they are a PERFECT fit in CSD steel shot wads. Greg Sappington had told me they worked well and he said he had an article about a guy shooting them in fully rifled barrel as an "attached wad" slug with good results. I hadn't realized Greg sent me a few of those wads so I checked and they are a perfect fit in my bore with 0.662" RB pressed in with shotcup cut down and two 16 ga. nitro card wads under the ball. I will be trying those out shortly.

Even if they don't work as an attached wad slug, the slit version of the wad will make for easy loading with no patching. I'll have to order in though and no local supply here.

good luck in your loading and keep us posted on results.

Longbow

[gpidaho]

Longbow: Scott sent me an ebay link to a .662 RB mould at a good price. I picked it and a .562 RB mould for my 20ga. up this afternoon. Going to have to wait on that saving money thing. Anyway I have at least a dozen different 12ga. wads to choose from and they vary from the teens to about 40 in thousandths for petal thickness. Time to quit buying now and get to testing. Gp

[dsh1106]

I don't recall what you said you were shooting for RB and am too lazy to read back (sorry) but if 0.690" that is one I have had no success with so far. However, BPI does publish load data for 0.690" RB's in shotcups so there are some that fit. That has been my problem is that the 0.690" RB is too bit for any shotcups I can find so petals shear.

0.678" is a good fit in some shotcups and just a bit loose in my Winchester 1 1/8 oz. yellow wads. One wrap of paper or cross patches fixes that but is a bit of a pain.

0.662" RB's are loose in regular shotcups but cloth patching fixes that and they are a PERFECT fit in CSD steel shot wads. Greg Sappington had told me they worked well and he said he had an article about a guy shooting them in fully rifled barrel as an "attached wad" slug with good results. I hadn't realized Greg sent me a few of those wads so I checked and they are a perfect fit in my bore with 0.662" RB pressed in with shotcup cut down and two 16 ga. nitro card wads under the ball. I will be trying those out shortly.

Even if they don't work as an attached wad slug, the slit version of the wad will make for easy loading with no patching. I'll have to order in though and no local supply here.

good luck in your loading and keep us posted on results.

Longbow

LB

? on the CSD wads, are these for 2 3/4" or 3" ?
Is the payload 1 or 2 .662 balls?

Scott

[longbow]

2 3/4" hulls and one 0.662" RB. They are a nice press fit into the unslit wad. I hadn't actually thought of trying 2 balls and am wondering why because I have been toying with the idea of a two ball load and the CSD wads would be perfect for size if they are long enough. In that case they would have to be slit.

I like attached wad slugs like Brenneke and I'm a little unsure why I didn't work around to this earlier. Maybe partly because there is little in the way of selection locally so I don't get the option of going and looking at or picking up a bag to try. However, I do have a few CSD wads that I was given and I just never looked that close.

In any case, with the CSD wads I have those 0.662" RB's fit perfectly and with two 16 ga. card wads behind them and the cup cut down to a hair over the equator of the ball they make a nice attached wad slug... a little light maybe but I have a home made mould that casts a TC nose at 0.685" with reduced shank that also fits the CSD wads perfectly so I can increase weight using those.

Now to try them out!

Longbow

[Jlucas45]

Hogtamer: Worse than that! It's a Savage-Stevens Break barrel and in that light gun heavy loads kick like a mule. Our county shooting range has stand-up shooting benches and I'm shooting off my rifle front rest and leather shooting rest under the stock. I can't imagine shooting the RB loads sitting down. I'm thinking about up-grading to a rifled barrel gun and have been looking at the bolt action 20ga. and the Mossberg 500 12ga. Any comments good or bad about these shotguns? Thanks to all for the comments and encouragement given. Gp

I suppose that this comment is too late to be helpful, but I thought I would mention it anyway in regards to your gun choices. I noted at some time in the past how wonderful the Remington 1100 was when shooting slugs. The semi-auto spring really dampens the felt recoil...in addition to that, I later discovered the Knoxx Recoil stock, which also has a spring damper built in. My favorite is the 1100, but the Knoxx is great as well. I put the Knoxx on a Mossberg 88 with a rifled barrel which was mostly very accurate out past 125 yards with Lyman 525 gr. "pellet" slugs, and I have yet to test the 1100 for consistent accuracy, but at closer targets, and if "plinking" is appropriate, was very accurate in smashing into stumps. Knoxx recoil stocks can be found...here https://www.opticsplanet.com/blackha...gun-stock.html

Good shooting and Happy New Year!!

[Charlie Horse]

I noted at some time in the past how wonderful the Remington 1100 was when shooting slugs. The semi-auto spring really dampens the felt recoil...

Must be nice. I've been shooting my Rock Island Arsenal single shot 20 gauge. Feels like Muhammad Ali is punching me in the shoulder.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I've been trying for a while to get a powder coated 720 ball to shoot good out of a single shot 12 gauge for a while and I think I'm making progress.

I'm tested between 90 and 110gr by volume of home made 1F black powder. 90gr shoots very low but accurate at around 650fps. 110 shoots higher but still a little low at around 850fps. This charge is starting to really punch my shoulder. I'm using balloon head all brass shells. They still aren't expanding in the chamber so I don't think pressure is going up but the recoil is. I still have room for maybe 120 possibly 130 gr of powder.

My question is how far should I push it? I feel like 850fps is pretty slow but I don't know. I'd like to be able to kill a deer at 50 yards without too much drop. Should I try to get 1000fps if my shoulder can take the beating? I have no idea what a normal speed is for a slug of this type.

[megasupermagnum]

I've been trying for a while to get a powder coated 720 ball to shoot good out of a single shot 12 gauge for a while and I think I'm making progress.

I'm tested between 90 and 110gr by volume of home made 1F black powder. 90gr shoots very low but accurate at around 650fps. 110 shoots higher but still a little low at around 850fps. This charge is starting to really punch my shoulder. I'm using balloon head all brass shells. They still aren't expanding in the chamber so I don't think pressure is going up but the recoil is. I still have room for maybe 120 possibly 130 gr of powder.

My question is how far should I push it? I feel like 850fps is pretty slow but I don't know. I'd like to be able to kill a deer at 50 yards without too much drop. Should I try to get 1000fps if my shoulder can take the beating? I have no idea what a normal speed is for a slug of this type.

I wouldnt worry about speed at all. Even 700 fps may as well be a laser beam at 50 yards. 1000 fps is point and shoot to 100 yards, more than you need in your instance.

[longbow]

I used to load 0.690" RB's over up to 110 grs. of commercial FFFg with no problems. Not good accuracy but that was due to the undersize ball. That was in a modern 3" chambered single shot gun.

This may be of some use:

http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/bp...lackPowder.htm
http://mchenry-sc.org/engineering/DRAM.html

From what I see 3 3/4 drams equivalent seems to be the common max. load for 2 3/4" hulls and 4 drams equivalent for 3" hulls.

Longbow

[megasupermagnum]

I used to load 0.690" RB's over up to 110 grs. of commercial FFFg with no problems. Not good accuracy but that was due to the undersize ball. That was in a modern 3" chambered single shot gun.

This may be of some use:

http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/bp...lackPowder.htm
http://mchenry-sc.org/engineering/DRAM.html

From what I see 3 3/4 drams equivalent seems to be the common max. load for 2 3/4" hulls and 4 drams equivalent for 3" hulls.

Longbow

That's more to do with the fact that is all that will fit. I certainly wouldn't worry about pressure. Depending on your powder choice, 120gr of blackpowder and a .720" (1 1/4oz) ball is only going to be in the ballpark of 5,000 psi. I would not be scared to shoot a 200 grain load if it would fit. It's hard to tell with homemade blackpowder, but in general that should be even less pressure than Goex or Swiss volume for volume.

[longbow]

True enough, I doubt you could get enough BP into even a 3" hull under any slug to over pressure a modern 12 ga.