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Thread: Round Ball loading the 12ga.

  1. #1
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Round Ball loading the 12ga.

    I'm just getting everything together for shotgun slugs and round ball loads and need a little enlightenment. I have a Savage-Stevens 12ga. smoothbore I'd like to build some round ball loads for. I have purchased both the cylinder .730 choke tube and the Carlson's rifled choke. The instructions with the choke say it has a 1 in 35 twist and a .010 constriction with the round ball not having a very large area you could call a drive band would the Lyman .735 mould be appropriate in size for these chokes. Thanks for any input. Gp

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    Hogtamer's Avatar
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    Slug your bore or otherwise measure. Soft lead will indeed swage throught the barrel but some of these guns measure as little as .727 to as much as .732. If it fits it will emit and will be reasonably accurate at 50 yds. To 100 yds it takes a booming big load and you are gonna get hammered! May be the reason you encounter folks in the shotgun forum that seem a little goofy at times! At least you're not starting with a 10 ga....
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  3. #3
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Hogtamer: Thank you for your rapid response. I flared the skirt of a Lyman Foster slug until it measured .775 using a .600 RB and tapped the slug down the bore. In swaging down it loosened a bit about mid way then tightened again at the cylinder choke resulting in a slug skirt that measured .731 according to Starrett's. Lee has a RB mould that casts .715 I believe (Less money) would the .715 ball have any chance at accuracy using a IC or IM choke. Thanks for the help. Gp

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

    Hogtamer's Avatar
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    My money would be on the larger ball given your barrel dimensions.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    if you're planning on running on just a wad with no peddles, I can send you a handful of .735 Round balls, if you're using a wad with peddles I can send you a handful of .678 round balls.

    Let me know

    Scott
    Scott

    You can easily judge the character of others by how they treat those who they think can do nothing for them.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I've done quite well with 0.735" RB's cast of range scrap so about ACWW hardness. My smoothbore is large at 0.733" but I have shot the same load through a rifled gun with 0.727" groove with no problems at all.

    I've gotten best results using a -plastic gas seal then hard card wad column. I tried using plastic wads with petals cut off but the wad extruded around the ball causing cracks and gas seal failures. If you try plastic wads with petals cut off I'd suggest putting at least one 12 g.a nitro card wad on top then the ball.

    With smaller balls (0.662" or 0.678") loaded into shotcups I get best results using a 16 or 20 ga. nitro card wad (or two) in the bottom of the shotcup then a small scoop of Cream 'O Wheat on that then the ball.

    Another option for under bore size balls is donut wads to keep the ball centered in the bore. I have not tried that yet but will get to it one day. I can say that undersize balls not kept centered can and will stray off course by feet at 50 yards... out of cylinder bore, modified and I/C chokes in my case. If the ball just fit the choke maybe it would straighten out but I think they pick up a spin rolling down the bore so veer off wildly once uncontained.

    Longbow

  7. #7
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Scott: Thank you for the kind offer. I'm starting to get things rounded up for shotgun shooting. Guess I hadn't spent enough money on rifle and pistol shooting. LOL For the 12ga I have on hand a Lee 7/8 key drive slug mould, a Lyman Foster slug mould and have on order from Midway the Lyman .735 RB mould. I would like to try some of the .678 RBs I'll PM you information. I've also ordered more wads and nitro cards than I'm apt to use in two lifetimes. I'm pretty sure that BPI alters the load data on each load to maximize how many different combinations you need. If you have any favorite RB loads and are OK with sharing them I'd be glad to hear them in a PM. I have the Slug Loading and Field Application 7th Edition from BPI and also their Advantages Manual and planned on using their load data to start. Thanks again. Gp

  8. #8
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Longbow: Thank you for chipping in with some starting point ideas. Reading your posts and following Ajay's threads is what got me thinking I might give it a try. I have Gas seals and brush wads on order and will likely start there unless advised not to as there is a lot of load data for such in the Slug Loading Manual By BPI. We shall see how my old shoulder holds out. There may be a yard sale on shotgun supplies soon. We shall see. Thank you for your help. Gp

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    I've maxed out at about 36 grains of HS6 with a few of my test runs of .678 RB, my M500 beats the snot outta me with that load. I found that the lighter loads are more accurate, or I'm less punchy, either way I tend to load on the lower end of the spectrum.
    Scott

    You can easily judge the character of others by how they treat those who they think can do nothing for them.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Thanks Scott, I have several powders on hand that may work. a few that come to mind are HS-6, PB, Longshot and Blue Dot. Powder I got, the rest of all this is getting expensive considering all that's gone down range so far are three or four 20ga offerings. I'll likely start saving a bunch of money here soon though. LOL. Gp

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master

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    As for load data... you will find if you haven't already that once you get much over 1 oz. or the 525 gr. Lyman sabot slug that load data is sparse.

    I based my 0.735" RB loads on a Precision Rifle load they published for their 610 gr. full bore Piledriver slug. The 0.735" RB is somewhat overbore but there is little meat around the equator. I satisfied myself of this by driving a ball cast from ACWW through my bore and it took amazingly little force. So since it is lighter and has less bearing surface than the full bore Piledriver I felt quite safe with the load data.

    Their data was a bit vague in that they said "any straight walled hull" and gave powder charges ranging from 36 grs. of Blue Dot to 44 grs. of Blue Dot with a pressure of 12,500 PSI at 44 grs.

    I thought 12,500 PSI to bit higher than I'd like to go so started at 36 grs. which was a good load anyway. I got to 40 grs. and decided that was more fun than I wanted so backed off to 38 grs. and that's where I kept it. I used Fiocchi 2 3/4" hulls, Winchester 209 primers, 38 grs. Blue Dot, plastic gas seal then hard wad column, 0.735" RB, roll crimp. This gave nice groups of 3" to 4" at 50 yards from smoothbore and the same load through a rifled gun was running about 2" at 50 yards but by then I had been beaten senseless so I have to think gun and load could probably do better if someone else less punchy was pulling the trigger. I'd shot several guns off the bench then shot something like 35 rounds of 0.735" RB's from the bench from my smoothbore before using the borrowed rifled gun then shot another 15 rounds.

    I made several trips to the range with that load and got some nice groups out to 100 yards but more often than not there was a flier or two... or sometimes 3 out of a 5 shot group so not dependable at that long range. Out to 60 or maybe 70 yards it did pretty well though.

    I get a bit twitchy with solid full bore slugs though so decided I'd rather use smaller balls in shotcups just in case one ever found itself in a full choked gun... just in case.

    While my powder selection has been very limited for slugs: Blue Dot, Green Dot, Unique and SR4756 I've found Blue Dot to be my favourite for slugs of 1 oz. and up to 800 grs. At 1 oz. the Blue Dot charge needs to be high to generate enough pressure to burn well. For lighter loads a faster powder like Unique or Green Dot is better I think. There is lots of load data for 1 oz. slugs using both.

    Longbow

  12. #12
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing guys. Gp

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    Boolit Grand Master


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    Good evening
    Another option is your plastic shotcup (no petals) seated on the powder followed by a scoop (been using a Lee 1.0 cc) of Cream of Wheat followed by the RB. More C of W on top of the ball with a cereal box wad over the C of W. This second amount is to bring the level up to where it crimps best. So this amount varies depending on your hulls. I am using 8 segment folding hulls.
    Been running these about 1250 fps. Air cooled range scrap. .715 diameter. Shot out of my Modified Mossy barrel 28" groups 3-4" at 35 yards. Nothing stellar but very easy to put together just to bust rocks with. Some real " shot buffer" might work better but supplies down here do not exist.
    Mike in Peru
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Thanks for that Mike. Sitting here like a kid looking out the window, waiting for the Brown truck. BPI and Midway orders on the way. The load you shared is one I'll try. Gp

  15. #15
    In Remembrance



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    Lee .690 round balls will shoot quite accurately in my 12 gauge cylinder choke shotguns using plastic wads sans petals, Missionary5155's Cream of Wheat "ballistic filler" and patched with either lubed pillow ticking or denim fabric. Shooting round balls in smoothbores requires a good gas seal and some way to center the ball in the bore. When I load these in 12 gauge all-brass shells, I use 10 gauge plastic wads and two thicknesses of fabric to "patch" the ball.

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master
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    gpidaho,
    You might be interested in an old thread here I posted back in 12/7/2016. It's still in the archive, titled, "12 ga. round ball success". It's a couple of pages to plow through but I detail my load for a round ball and it might have some value to you . I have a custom sized mould for a .702 ball and my efforts have been using that sized ball. I'm sure it's adaptable to other sized balls. Anyway, thanks to the kindness of another board member, I got some photos posted in there. I shoot it through a CYLINDER BORE, and I caution you that that's all I can say about it. It's safe in mine and I have never shot it through anything with a choke. I often get one big ragged hole at 50 yards with both of my fully rifled barrels (870 & H&R). I think it works so good because it's larger than conventional design says it should be. I get heavy engraving on the shotcup petals and damage to them if driven too hard. I don't want to push it fast, any way. This shell, as constructed, is thunderously effective. The photos and text of the thread tell the story. Best of luck in your quest. Hope my efforts help you out some.
    725

  17. #17
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Thank you 725, I'll be looking into the thread. Gp

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    I'm on board with Longbow, I like the .735 RB with 40 gr Blue Dot. Gives a chronographed 1300 fps, which is more than enough for anything on the N. American continent. I am told you can go to 44 gr, but my shoulder says no more, even in my 11lb NEF Slug Hunter. I doubt if going to 44 gr will give much more than an additional 100 fps anyway. I had been experimenting using the Ballistic Products 12ga double ender brush wad. The end of the cup is a pocket for the RB to set in. I wrap the RB in plumbers teflon tape, pop it in the hull on top of the wad, and roll crimp. No leading whatsoever. This load will go through a mid size deer lengthwise. I've done it twice. Hard cardboard wads and a plastic gas seal work well also, with little or no difference in performance, but I found the one piece plastic brush wad is easier to load, so that's why I am gravitating towards it.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    First time out to the range today since my .735 RB mould arrived. I took a variety of slugs and shot out both for the 12 and 20ga. Good news being I didn't blow anything up but did have a few loads who's recoil was far north of my rifle shooting. Fiocchi new hulls with 38 gr. of Blue Dot, BPGS, !/2" fiber wad .125 nitro +.060 nitro .736 RB and clear over shot disc was the best performer of the day. This was roll crimped.Most all the shots were low and left on my target so I believe it was more my point of aim than over the top load problems. I've got to get a better sighting system than a front bead and top of hammer LOL. One load that really bit me was a buckshot load right out of the book. I was pretty punchy from all the slug and RB loads so being a Dumb *** I tried a left shoulder hold and got a little too far centered off the shoulder, mule kick with a poor hold is no fun. Anyway, fun to try a few new things. Gp

  20. #20
    In Remembrance bikerbeans's Avatar
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    Slugs and buckshot, can't go wrong with that combo. Glad you made it to the range. Just remember next time we need pics!

    BB

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check