NOE Expander Plug

[ChuckJaxFL]

I'm somewhat of a "late adopter" of things. P-mags were out for years before I bought one. I just got my first striker fired anything a couple years ago. I just finally powder coated a bullet a couple weeks ago.

I'd never tried an M-die, despite the overwhelming supply of positive remarks. I've been content with the expander plug on my Dillon measures & the Lee universal for single stage work. They do, after all, get the job done.

That said...

I decided to finally go ahead and add one of the expanders from NOE to a recent order, the ones that replace the plug in the Lee die. I used it to help prep some 300 Blackout brass to receive some TL314-90-SWC's (because I want to be Larry Gibson when I grow up).

It's a night & day difference. Far easier on the brass itself, obviously. Also, the claims of how much easier it is to keep the projectile straight with the brass, not at all exaggerated. I'll be ordering a few more of these immediately.

I know MOST of you are past this point, and already on the M-die bandwagon. Hopefully someone that's considering, but hasn't yet tried one, will read this a give it a shot.

[kbstenberg]

Chuck You aren't the lone ranger at starting new stuff. I am waiting for the next sale at NOE and I am going to go hole hog on bullet sizers. I'm figuring 150$ for all the sizes I need.

[Rcmaveric]

Nope. I bought the Lee universal expander years ago because i am cheap and on tight budget. It worked but was kind of a pain. I found the NOE expanders and never looked back. Saves a bunch of money in the long run. When ever i add another caliber its just a different cheap plug away. I prefer my tools to be simple, reasonably priced, and function without to much hassle.

[Taterhead]

The beauty of the NOE expanders is that they have so many in-between sizes that it is easy to tailor the interior neck diameter to be the prices size for a custom boolit diameter. I also like the way that the M profiles shapes a "cup" in the case mouths compared to a traditional bell.

[JBinMN]

I just ordered 5 of them for 3 different calibers on Saturday & am looking forward to trying them out. I only have one Lee Univ. exp. die, so when I get them I will have to decide if I want to get 4 more of those LEE Univ. Exp. dies for the turrets as well. Otherwise I would be changing the one die out as well as the inserts & that would sort of defeat the purpose of changing just the turrets that are set up as caliber specific, as well as some that are set up as boolit specific with the seating dies.

Anyway, I am going to give them a try as well & I hope I am as pleased as everyone else seems to be.

[kbstenberg]

Its too bad the expanders don't work in the Lyman M die

[Hairy Dawg]

I just ordered 5 of them for 3 different calibers on Saturday & am looking forward to trying them out. I only have one Lee Univ. exp. die, so when I get them I will have to decide if I want to get 4 more of those LEE Univ. Exp. dies for the turrets as well. Otherwise I would be changing the one die out as well as the inserts & that would sort of defeat the purpose of changing just the turrets that are set up as caliber specific, as well as some that are set up as boolit specific with the seating dies.

Anyway, I am going to give them a try as well & I hope I am as pleased as everyone else seems to be.

Ha, yea, I got tired of swapping back & forth between each caliber & having to reset each time. Bought enough Lee expanders to have 5 dies that stay permanently set for each caliber I use.

[sigep1764]

I have a Lee Expander on order through Graf's because they could not order the M Die I wanted. I knew the Lee only belled the mouth of the case but I remembered the NOE solution to that problem. Ordered one this morning. Will post how it works when I get everything together.

[gpidaho]

I just don't have enough good things to say about the NOE tooling in general. I have ten or twelve Lyman M-dies that sit on the shelf now that I've started using the NOE expanders. I'm going to have to have a Swappin' n Sellin' yard sale one of these days. Gp

[toallmy]

I have a few Lyman m dies that I use but I have replaced the expander plug in all of them , I have switched over to NOE expander / lee dies for all new projects , I can find a insert at NOE that expands and flares the case neck for cast boolits at the size I want to use .

[kbstenberg]

toallmy do the NOE expanders fit the lyman dies?

[Taterhead]

toallmy do the NOE expanders fit the lyman dies?

You didn't ask me, but I can help with the answer...

The simple answer is, no. The Lyman expanders have a threaded expander assembly, not unlike Redding and RCBS expanders. By the way, RCBS handgun expander plugs have been M style for a few years. They have wider "Cowboy" expander plugs available to retrofit for cast boolits.

The NOE plugs are not threaded, and drop into a Lee Universal expanding die.

[Finster101]

It is a bit overwhelming trying to decide which plug you need, at least for me. That's the only reason I don't have one yet.

[Taterhead]

It is a bit overwhelming trying to decide which plug you need, at least for me. That's the only reason I don't have one yet.

It is pretty easy, actually.

Step 1. Decide if you need a rifle or pistol plug.

Step 2, note your boolit diameter. Select an expander plug where the boolit's diameter falls in between the two dimensions provided by NOE.

The larger diameter will expand the case mouth to a hair larger than the boolit, thus helping start the boolit into the case. The smaller stated diameter will be a hair smaller than boolit diameter, thus accommodating a bit of neck tension by sizing the neck interior slightly smaller than boolit diameter.
The plugs are inexpensive so it is useful to have a couple plugs around the specified diameter to play with neck tension.

[toallmy]

I just got home from work , but could not have said it any better .

[sigep1764]

Got to use my NOE plug today. Worked perfectly and smoothly. I didn't lube the necks at first and it was a little sticky. Lubed one case and skipped a couple then lubed another and skipped a couple. Couldn't be happier.

[Dragonheart]

The NOE bullet sizer works quite well, but don't waste your money on Nose sizing.

[gpidaho]

I have very good luck using the Noe nose sizing tooling. Just the ticket for bore riders to get that nice fit. Gp

[Dragonheart]

I have very good luck using the Noe nose sizing tooling. Just the ticket for bore riders to get that nice fit. Gp

Yes, you can size the bullet's base and get it to size and perfectly round. And you can do the same thing with the bullet's nose. But just because you have two perfectly round circles of the diameter you wish, doesn't mean they are concentric to each other. Like laying a nickel on a quarter to round diameters, but not necessarily concentric.

Therein lies the problem with a two seperate step sizinging process like the NOE system. What you end up with is a non-concentric bullet, meaning a lopsided bullet. Rotate a two step sized bullet on a concentricity gauge and you will see immediately what I mean, there is more metal on one side of the bullet. Take a match grade bullet for comparison and do the same thing and you will see the needle stays in the same place; a match bullet is concentric, therefore balanced.

A full power lopsided bullet will shoot just fine and have reasonable accuracy under 50 yards, but the bullet is wobbling in flight and the wobble only gets worse with velocity and distance.

I am not trying to blast NOE because I am in the $1K club, so I have a lot of NOE made items and quality items they are. I am also not trying to put sour grapes on your efforts, I am just saying I have never been able to get the NOE two step sizing process to produce a concentric bullet and far as I know no one else has either.

If you read some of Bama's posts he has had great success sizing concentric bore riders, but he has created custom sizing dies.

I wish you well with your efforts and if anyone comes up with a solution please post.

[gpidaho]

Dragonheart; First I'll say that I very much value your opinions and your insights. You've helped me along the way many, many times. Mostly your posts on powder coating. This brings me to this point. As we all know powder coating changes your bullets dimensions enough at times to keep a bore riding bullet from chambering. Enter the nose sizer. I have no doubt that the possibility of creating a non-concentric bullet is more probable than not. R. Dupraz and I have worked out a caliber specific and adjustable ram that helps, but not eliminates this problem. In a full metal jacket bullet the lack of complete concentricity would be a very large problem. With the cast alloys that most of us use (mostly under 20 BHN) its my opinion when the nose fits the bore with some engraving and the bullet fits the throat properly when the near plastic bubble gum alloy has no choice (fitting tightly) than to conform to the barrel and at that point it becomes the quality of the barrel and the quality of the fit that determines the out come. I have to many good groups fired to doubt this, even if in just my opinion. I've been wrong before but I'll keep using the system. Your friend in the craft. Gp