Lee PrecisionWidenersStainLess Steel MediaMidSouth Shooters Supply
Inline FabricationGraf & SonsRotoMetals2Titan Reloading

Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: hundreds of recovered bullets

  1. #1
    Boolit Master






    Lloyd Smale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    munising Michigan
    Posts
    13,967

    hundreds of recovered bullets

    all winter I test shoot into a snow bank off my front porch. In the spring I can pick up bullets and see if they have expanded ect. Well ive been picking them up daily here and ran into something. I know many have asked if you can pc a gas checked bullet and leave the check off. I did a bunch of 130 rfgc 9mms with smokes brown. Did some with checks installed and some with no checks. they were all fired through my 4.5 inch ar15 in 9mm. When I picked up the bullets I noticed that the gas checked ones looked fine. Still had some color in the rifling groves but the ones I left the checks of looked like bare lead right up to the nose of the bullet that doesn't touch the rifling. These were all done at the same time, same alloy and went through the same sizer, and pc'ed together. All I can figure is without the check I'm getting a lot of gas cutting of the bullet. Every one I picked up that wasn't gas checked look like this. Barrel didnt lead after shooting 60 of them through the gun. I did check that right after I shot them. So apparently its still working good enough to not lead. At least not noticeably. Also found my 130 hp expands nicely with a mix of 1/4 ww 3/4s pure but the 147s didnt expand at all. Both were loaded with top end book loads and cast out of the same alloy. So the 147s must not be running fast enough out of that short barrel to expand. Same size hp cavity in both. Now my 200 grain hp 45acps looked like the picture pefect expanded mushroom cast out of that alloy and shot with 7 grains of unique.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    northern Minn. in the boonies
    Posts
    1,952
    Very interesting

  3. #3
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Wilds of Southern West Virginia
    Posts
    27
    The ones without the gas check, were they from the same mold and designed for the gas check? That reduced diameter section might be a starting place for gas cutting. Would be interesting to see if a plain based bullet shows the same results.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master






    Lloyd Smale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    munising Michigan
    Posts
    13,967
    yup out of the same mold cast at the same time, coated at the same time. I gas checked some and left the gas check off some. Gas checked ones looked fine but the ones without checks had all the pc gone except on the nose. All were shot at the same time and loaded with 4.7 grains of aa2. All were cast out recovered lead that tested 12 bhn.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  5. #5
    Boolit Master redhawk0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    North East, USA
    Posts
    349
    Did you GC after PC...or before? Just curious.

    redhawk

    The only stupid question...is the unasked one.


    Not all who wander....are lost.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master


    Walter Laich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Cypress, Republic of Texas
    Posts
    3,070
    I agree that if you shoot a GC bullet without the GC on it there would be gas cutting of the base PC or no PC.

    PC is not a substitute for a GC.
    NRA Life
    USPSA L1314
    SASS Life 48747
    RVN War Games, 2nd Place

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    NW Ohio, almost as N and W as you can be :-)
    Posts
    2,559
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    I noticed that the gas checked ones looked fine. Still had some color in the rifling groves but the ones I left the checks of looked like bare lead right up to the nose of the bullet that doesn't touch the rifling.
    I cannot imagine gas cutting that removed every bit of PC from the bullet including the nose ? Were you firing them through a supressor ??

    A picture might be worth 2,000 words .

    Maybe the muzzle blast in the blast chamber of the can (if you are using one) is removing the PC ??

    Bill
    Both ends WHAT a player

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    625
    The nose was still coated.
    QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES?

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

    firefly1957's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Harrison Michigan
    Posts
    1,958
    I have noticed snow taking coating off bullets but never had snow expand a bullet unless ice or gravel was hit ?
    I do not get the snow you get so shoot into snow bank from the snow thrower along driveway .
    I also found some slow (800 f/s) 30 caliber 170 grain bullets seemed to go further in snow then full velocity ones (2040 f/s).
    When I think back on all the **** I learned in high school it's a wonder I can think at all ! And then my lack of education hasn't hurt me none I can read the writing on the wall.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master






    Lloyd Smale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    munising Michigan
    Posts
    13,967
    Its about a 6 foot tall snow bank where snow is blown all winter long.
    Quote Originally Posted by firefly1957 View Post
    I have noticed snow taking coating off bullets but never had snow expand a bullet unless ice or gravel was hit ?
    I do not get the snow you get so shoot into snow bank from the snow thrower along driveway .
    I also found some slow (800 f/s) 30 caliber 170 grain bullets seemed to go further in snow then full velocity ones (2040 f/s).
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  11. #11
    Boolit Master






    Lloyd Smale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    munising Michigan
    Posts
    13,967
    Quote Originally Posted by firefly1957 View Post
    I have noticed snow taking coating off bullets but never had snow expand a bullet unless ice or gravel was hit ?
    I do not get the snow you get so shoot into snow bank from the snow thrower along driveway .
    I also found some slow (800 f/s) 30 caliber 170 grain bullets seemed to go further in snow then full velocity ones (2040 f/s).
    if it was the snow that scraping off the coating id think the nose would be the first place youd see it. Noses on these bullets were still coated.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  12. #12
    Boolit Master






    Lloyd Smale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    munising Michigan
    Posts
    13,967
    Quote Originally Posted by Willbird View Post
    I cannot imagine gas cutting that removed every bit of PC from the bullet including the nose ? Were you firing them through a supressor ??

    A picture might be worth 2,000 words .

    Maybe the muzzle blast in the blast chamber of the can (if you are using one) is removing the PC ??

    Bill
    no can with these. Had some I did use a can with some plain base and gas checked bullets (not the ones that were gas checked designed not checked) and they were just fine.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  13. #13
    Ok so you recovered more than the two gc bullet styles with & without check. You also recovered plain-based coated boolits that were fine (meaning the coating was intact on the groove-land riding surface.

    Therefor the conclusion is gc-designed boolits need gc's no matter what. Plain based boolits are good to go.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Jaque Janaviac View Post
    Ok so you recovered more than the two gc bullet styles with & without check. You also recovered plain-based coated boolits that were fine (meaning the coating was intact on the groove-land riding surface.

    Therefor the conclusion is gc-designed boolits need gc's no matter what. Plain based boolits are good to go.
    The part of the equation your forgetting with that statement is his stated fact that these slugs didn't lead the barrel so the PC was obviously doing its job even without GC. My own testing (30-30 & 38-55) with GC based boolits shot without a GC pretty much agrees with Lloyds observations of no barrel leading. I haven't recovered any bullets in that configuration so cant comment on weather they have any PC left on the riding bands.

    One thing I did notice that Lloyd doesn't touch on is that I get the same accuracy with or without a GC on a GC shanked PC'd slug.

  15. #15
    Fingers,

    Very well. Good point.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master






    Lloyd Smale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    munising Michigan
    Posts
    13,967
    that's the conclusion I came away with. that said the gas cut bullets that lacked checks didn't seem to lead my gun and I did a couple 30 round mag dumps with them so if they were going to lead id think I would have saw some starting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Jaque Janaviac View Post
    Ok so you recovered more than the two gc bullet styles with & without check. You also recovered plain-based coated boolits that were fine (meaning the coating was intact on the groove-land riding surface.

    Therefor the conclusion is gc-designed boolits need gc's no matter what. Plain based boolits are good to go.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  17. #17
    Boolit Master






    Lloyd Smale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    munising Michigan
    Posts
    13,967
    that's correct. I haven't got around to testing yet but my thoughts are why fool with it. Ive got gas checked and plain base molds for every gun I have so if I don't want to use a check why not just use a plain base mold to start with. Now I will add to that that ive tested in the past conventionaly lubed gas checked bullets with and without checks installed and rarely did I not get better accuracy using the same alloys with the check installed. Some gas checked bullets sans the check gave downright miserable results and in all my testing ive never seen even once where they shot better without checks. So if checks aren't in your budget I question why a guy would even buy a gas checked mold. .
    Quote Originally Posted by fingers284 View Post
    The part of the equation your forgetting with that statement is his stated fact that these slugs didn't lead the barrel so the PC was obviously doing its job even without GC. My own testing (30-30 & 38-55) with GC based boolits shot without a GC pretty much agrees with Lloyds observations of no barrel leading. I haven't recovered any bullets in that configuration so cant comment on weather they have any PC left on the riding bands.

    One thing I did notice that Lloyd doesn't touch on is that I get the same accuracy with or without a GC on a GC shanked PC'd slug.
    Last edited by Lloyd Smale; 05-06-2018 at 06:41 AM.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check