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Thread: The reason that your SKS or AK47 will not group..

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    gpidaho,
    I understand you consternation about steel case ammo but the 527 was designed for it so that’s what I shoot. I’m working through a case of Wolf FMJ and another of soft point. My 527 is mostly for plinking and coyote hunting.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master Mauser 98K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbx-4 View Post
    Mauser,
    My response is to your first post and premise to this thread, that is 7.62x39 Wolf ammo is one of the main contributing factors to the SKS and AKs poor accuracy.

    You are blaming the ammo for the rifle’s inherent inaccuracy. Because when the same ammo is used in a rifle designed to CIP standards and built just for the cheap ammo, it performs better than the price of the ammo would suggest. So much so that it’s at least as good as factory ammo from the US. So it’s a false premise to blame the ammo.
    And this isn’t just one rifle, its all CZ 527 rifles in 7.62x39 perform this good with the Wolf ammo.
    Also, unless specially built or cast bullets sized to the bore and hand loaded, all SKS and AKs have poor accuracy. But they were not meant to shoot MOA or even close.

    Don’t take it personally because it’s not meant to be.
    apples an oranges.. you cannot compare one rifle with another, even if chambered in the same caliber, they will always behave differently. but ask any real shooter about matching ammo to the rifle and they will tell you the exact same thing, that if the bullet is too small for the bore then accuracy will suffer. that was the entire point of the post, that most ammo bought in the US is around a .308-.309 bullet when the barrel is a .311-.312. it is a proven fact that has been documented in just about every gun publication on the planet, that a undersized bullet will be misaligned to the bore of the rifle and this will throw off the POI.. but just because one rifle shoots good with the ammo proves nothing as it might be matched to that rifle but not another. it would be like me chambering a 7mm-08 in my .308 rifle. it might do sub MOA out of a rifle chambered in 7mm-08, but accuracy would go out the window in a .308 bore. in this case the ammo is to blame. the ammo is fine, so long as it is shot out of a rifle that is fitted for that ammo. it is just like with the SKS and the AK platform and the 7.62x39, an undersized bullet will destroy accuracy. this is not debatable, as it has been proven time and again and is documented..

    but it all comes down to design and function of the platform. with a few modifications and the correctly fitted ammo an sks can be accurate.
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    little something i been playing with. making a baby marksman rifle out of an SKS. got the adjustable cheek pad made today and finished the scope rail yesterday. it is a side mount scope rail and not the stupid dust cover rails that flop when you shoot, so the POI never changes due to scope alignment. gonna use it with my home brew bullets. we will then get to see exactly how accurate an SKS can be after i get everything done.
    Last edited by Mauser 98K; 05-17-2018 at 10:48 PM.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master 43PU's Avatar
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    Well my little Yugo shoots decent with Barnaul surplus ammo. This is 100 yards off of a rest only 4 shots that’s all I had left....Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #24
    Boolit Master Mauser 98K's Avatar
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    hey now. all these experts know that the sks is not capable of that.. at 50m it is a 8in pattern and at 100m 3feet across. that is why the 5.56 is kicking butt, because the 7.62x39 is so inaccurate that they would be lucky to hit the ground if they threw it. and this is always the argument by those who cannot shoot to begin with..

    but not bad 43PU.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    You see some nice AK groups on car doors and screens ,bullets sideways at 50 feet.Still,result is the same.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master roverboy's Avatar
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    I had a Chinese 56 SKS years ago that shot pretty decent with USA 123 gr. fmj. It shot about 3"-4" at 100 yards.
    Mrs. Hogwallop up and R-U-N-N-O-F-T.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master Mauser 98K's Avatar
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    and another reason for poor grouping.. im working up some lead 165gr and the SKS has one deeeeeep throat, lots of free bore.. so far what i have come up with b4 the LRN even touches the rifling is this..
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    as you can see that is gonna be one long cartridge. lots of jump b4 the bullet hits the rifling when using standard ammo. no wonder people cannot get MOA or less with the things. excessive jump b4 the bullet contacts the rifling, .308-.309 bullets in a .311 bore.. not built to be a tack driver, that much is obvious. gonna have to use all my knowledge to tame this critter to hit POA.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master roverboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mauser 98K View Post
    and another reason for poor grouping.. im working up some lead 165gr and the SKS has one deeeeeep throat, lots of free bore.. so far what i have come up with b4 the LRN even touches the rifling is this..
    Click image for larger version. 

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    as you can see that is gonna be one long cartridge. lots of jump b4 the bullet hits the rifling when using standard ammo. no wonder people cannot get MOA or less with the things. excessive jump b4 the bullet contacts the rifling, .308-.309 bullets in a .311 bore.. not built to be a tack driver, that much is obvious. gonna have to use all my knowledge to tame this critter to hit POA.
    I think if u can get fairly close to the rifling it'll shoot good. May not get moa but will still be good.
    Mrs. Hogwallop up and R-U-N-N-O-F-T.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master Mauser 98K's Avatar
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    that is what im gonna have to do with the jacketed 130gr i load, get close.. about 3/16 is about as close as i can get with jacketed. if i was to try and seat the jacketed bullets to touch the rifling then the bullet is not in the case. with the lead i can get away with it, but then the load using unique powder im using makes it a straight-pull bolt action... all im doing is seeing if it can be made to group anyway so ill manually cycle the bolt. lose less cases that way anyway.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    I got an SKS down to 35 . It would chamber a 325-175 sized .323 for a slip fit in a fired case and the barrel was .305316 . It was 3 moa of gallon anti freeze jugs at 25 yd with factory loads .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  11. #31
    Boolit Master Mauser 98K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harter66 View Post
    I got an SKS down to 35 . It would chamber a 325-175 sized .323 for a slip fit in a fired case and the barrel was .305316 . It was 3 moa of gallon anti freeze jugs at 25 yd with factory loads .
    0.316, that's a big bore.. was it heavily used? mine is practically new, the blue was not even worn off the gas piston and the rifling is still sharp and square. barrel mics to a tight .311 at 20in long.

    but got my loads developed with the resized .323 LRN 165gr.
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    resized to .312 and loaded to just touch the rifling. gonna try to dial in scope and try some groups tomorrow.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Probably well used but I gave $210 for it and a sported and an Arisaka .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  13. #33
    Boolit Master Mauser 98K's Avatar
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    i learned a valuable lesson about the cheap 7.62x39 steel cases today, the internal dimensions vary wildly. i weighed them after my accuracy test went Tango Uniform, some of them was upwards of 1gram variation between cases. that is upwards of 15.4324 grains variation between some cases.. so ooooook.. will use the steel cases as close range blasting ammo.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master



    Tazman1602's Avatar
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    Love those little SKS'! If only I knew in 1995 what I know now I would have bought HUNDREDS of them at $75/each and been very wealthy today....

    I really never had an issue with the accuracy of any of the six I've owned.....just wish I had kept one for ME.

    Just for giggles and grins....the mid 90's were still pretty much the Jack Daniels days for me......a couple of buddies told me I was full of poopy if I thought an SKS at $75 would still fire after being submerged in mud......and after a 12 pack and a fifth of Jack between us four guys, I took one, filled the clip (no chambered round), tied it to the back of my truck after a rainstorm, and drug it back and forth across an 80 acre muddy field.

    We then stopped, didn't even bother to untie the rope, jacked a round into the chamber and all ten fired without a jam. They were dumbfounded when the words "you guys are buying next time" came out of my mouth.

    Can't be old and wise unless you've been young and stupid....

    Art
    ________________________________
    "Only accurate Rifles are interesting"
    "Calling criminal invaders Illegal immigrants is like calling dope dealers unlicensed pharmacists"

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check