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Thread: Anyone cast for 7.62x25 Tokerev?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master WRideout's Avatar
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    I shoot the Lee 100 gr round nose in my Romanian Tok. They are generally cast from range scrap with added tin, sized .311 and lubed with Ben's Liquid Lube (BLL). Tried several different powder combinations but finally settled on 6.0 gr Unique. Since it is bottle-necked and headspaces on the shoulder, it needs a pretty good roll crimp. It is very fussy about crimp; too much or too little and it won't chamber reliably. Any more, I do the "plunk" test before I box up my ammo (you know, pull the barrel and drop in a cartridge to see if it goes in all the way.)

    On days when I don't have adequate frustration in my life, I make cases from .223. I use an old Wilson hand-crank case trimmer to bring them to final length, and it is tedious to say the least.

    Wayne
    Last edited by WRideout; 05-26-2018 at 07:45 AM. Reason: added information
    What doesn't kill you makes you stronger - or else it gives you a bad rash.
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  2. #22
    Boolit Master 44Blam's Avatar
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    Oh man... That's awesome.
    My buddies are gonna trip when I show up to the combat shootin' comp with my CZ and a pocket full of old .223 brass shaped into little bottle neck boolits.

  3. #23
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Been there done that.

    I have a baggie full of .223 blank ammo, yeah still live. Good for nothing else. Trimming to length removes the crimped portion at the end. I suspect it was slightly thinner brass. I did not do much in the way of trimming/reaming/neck turning.

    Chamfer tool after sizing to clean up burrs.

    I did persist until I was able to get good function. I believe the right bullet makes a huge difference.

    Then about the time I had it all working I found a sale on PPU ammo, HP's. Put my fired brass in a baggie, have some 75 rounds of homemade ammo for range practice. And a nice pile of factory loads if I ever need it. And that was the end of that trail for me. There are other calibers that are easier to work with, more rewarding. .32sw long recently has been a lot of fun.

    But I have to admit, I love the Cz-52. It sits below my left elbow where I sit in my recliner, between the recliner and my table. It is ALWAYS loaded with one in the chamber, on safe with hammer cocked. If I need it all I need to do is flick the safety and go to. There are also about 6 knives and a tomahawk all within reach. Not counting the razor hidden in my lap table.

    No I'm not paranoid. I don't think anyone is out to get me. And as long as I am always ready, I'll probably never have to use any of it.

    But if your not ready, ol Murphy will get ya.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master WRideout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHawk View Post
    Been there done that.

    But I have to admit, I love the Cz-52. It sits below my left elbow where I sit in my recliner, between the recliner and my table. It is ALWAYS loaded with one in the chamber, on safe with hammer cocked. If I need it all I need to do is flick the safety and go to. There are also about 6 knives and a tomahawk all within reach. Not counting the razor hidden in my lap table.

    No I'm not paranoid. I don't think anyone is out to get me. And as long as I am always ready, I'll probably never have to use any of it.

    But if your not ready, ol Murphy will get ya.
    My Romanian Tok came with the "import" aftermarket safety on it, which rendered the gun inoperable. I followed the conventional wisdom and took it out. I am now left with a functional pistol that has a big dirt-catching hole in the frame. Win some, lose some.

    If I had to carry it routinely, I would leave the chamber empty, and charge it upon drawing, just like they told us in the army for our .45 Government Models.

    Wayne
    What doesn't kill you makes you stronger - or else it gives you a bad rash.
    Venison is free-range, organic, non-GMO and gluten-free

  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Agree, with a pistol with an not functioning safety, only safe way is on an empty chamber.

    Or you could figure out why it did not work and fix it. Grin Or not.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master 44Blam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRideout View Post
    My Romanian Tok came with the "import" aftermarket safety on it, which rendered the gun inoperable. I followed the conventional wisdom and took it out. I am now left with a functional pistol that has a big dirt-catching hole in the frame. Win some, lose some.

    If I had to carry it routinely, I would leave the chamber empty, and charge it upon drawing, just like they told us in the army for our .45 Government Models.

    Wayne
    My Tok had a firing pin where the notch that was worn to the point where the detent that is supposed to keep it from firing unless the trigger is pulled would allow the pin to go forward even if the safetly was on. So, I am sure that the decocker would have potentially fired...
    I replaced the firing pin, and now you have to pull the trigger (which raises that little lever that pushes up on the detent) to get it to fire.

    I recently replaced the rollers and the barrel and the safety detent spring. I also fully dissasembled and cleaned/lubed it. It's like a new gun!

  7. #27
    Boolit Mold
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    M57 has a decent safety. Chamber a round, carefully lower the hammer down and it will stop just prior to engaging the pin. Locks in place. Engage the safety. To fire the safety is lowered and hammer pulled back fully. To test the safety of this I did my routine at the range, and with the hammer down but locked over a full chambered round, I proceeded to hit the hammer with block of wood. No movement, no accidental fire. I have since carried this way. BTW , a Browning Hi-Power holster fits this gun PERFECTLY.
    Chrono data again:
    12.5 H110 over Lee93RN sized to .309. - 1760ft/sec COL 1.295 to chamber
    S&B off the shelf. - 1550 ft/sec
    Czech Milsurp steel hulled 86gr - 1650avg

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    I got my late friends Chinese Tokarov from his estate sale.
    When he had it, I cast him up some 100 grain linotype Boolits sized to .309 and Powder Coated.
    There were some rounds in the box that he had loaded with there Boolits.
    But no loading data.
    When I tore down a couple of these rounds , they have 5.5 grains of some powder.
    But I am not sure which powder it is.
    Does anybody have any ideas or loading info for that cast Boolits.
    I did take the gun out and fire some of those reloads.
    They shot great.
    I just need to find some data to reload all the empty casings that came with the pistol.
    I did take the powder that was in the reloads.
    It looks like Unique , and almost perfectly the same Weight Per Volume.
    But if any of you can give me more information , it would be appreciated.
    Last edited by LAGS; 01-26-2023 at 02:55 PM.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    Makarov.com is your friend, if they are still in operation. They should have loading data for the 7.62x25.
    If you have Unique, you might try filling a spent case with it to see how much it will hold. One friend who shot a Cz-52 extensively, claimed that, unless you compress the charge, it is impossible to put enough (too much?) Unique in the case to develop an over-pressure load.
    I've barely put together the equipment needed to reload for this round, let alone cast bullets for it. Were I to cast for it, I'd sure take a good hard look at polymer-coating the bullets, or using gas checks. The round is fully capable of 1300+ f/s with almost any reasonable projectile, so leading will almost certainly be a consideration.
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
    He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool become servant to the wise of heart. Proverbs 11:29
    ...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:40


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  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    I use 78 gr cast bullets sized to .309 and 5 grs Titegroup.

  11. #31
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    This is all the load data I have for the tokarev. I have a Yugo M57 and the 32 cal 100gr xtp shoot to the sights at 100 yards using AA#7. Nice boom some fireball and good accuracy whats not to love? Oh yeah it chucks cases into the great beyond! My chamber will accept and release .312, but my bore is .314.

    Lyman cast bullet handbook:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Lee Jacketed Data:
    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    I checked the full case capacity on the 7.62x25 with unique.
    It is around 9.3 gr.
    The 100 gr cast Boolits are very long and have to be seated deep.
    So with a lesser load , you will still be showing some compression of the powder.
    I have both the Lyman and Lee reloading manuals.
    But they do not list the 100 gr CAST Boolits they I inquired about.
    I guess I could use the Jacketed info as shown in the Lee Manual.
    But I do not have any Accurate Powders except a little Acc #2
    Last edited by LAGS; 01-26-2023 at 06:29 PM.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master WRideout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGS View Post
    I got my late friends Chinese Tokarov from his estate sale.
    When he had it, I cast him up some 100 grain linotype Boolits sized to .309 and Powder Coated.
    There were some rounds in the box that he had loaded with there Boolits.
    But no loading data.
    When I tore down a couple of these rounds , they have 5.5 grains of some powder.
    But I am not sure which powder it is.
    Does anybody have any ideas or loading info for that cast Boolits.
    I did take the gun out and fire some of those reloads.
    They shot great.
    I just need to find some data to reload all the empty casings that came with the pistol.
    I did take the powder that was in the reloads.
    It looks like Unique , and almost perfectly the same Weight Per Volume.
    But if any of you can give me more information , it would be appreciated.
    I have used 6.0 gr of Unique in the 7.62x25 for years with perfect satisfaction. However I just replaced the firing pin on my Romanian Tok for the second time. I was afraid that the load was battering the action too much, so I recently backed off to 5.5 gr Unique; it seems to do just fine. Also, with the cost of powder these days, 1/2 gr per cartridge can seem significant.

    Wayne
    What doesn't kill you makes you stronger - or else it gives you a bad rash.
    Venison is free-range, organic, non-GMO and gluten-free

  14. #34
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    I haven't loaded for the CZ-52 in a while. But I used to load for it quite a bit, and always used unique. Today if I were working up a load I think I would probably go with the same or possibly Ramshot Silhouette, mostly just because of my personal tastes in powder. I used a custom mold I had made for me by Mountain Molds (out of business now). But it was pretty accurate in my pistol, although I did get leading. I haven't tried it with PC'd boolits, but I suspect that it might still lead a little.

    As for the .223 brass, yes you can do it. However, it's not a perfect solution. The case head diameter of the .223/5.56 is just a little smaller, and results in "fattie" looking cases. Neck turning or reaming is also required in most cases. You can use a drill bit (I forget which size), and I actually 3D Printed a jig at one point to do this. However, I found doing this resulted in boolits that would just drop into the case without hardly touching the sides. So I'm thinking a proper neck turner/neck reamer is better suited.

    Here is a picture of the boolet and loaded cartridges from my custom mold. It drops a 90gr FN at about .3125 with WW, or .311 with PB from my experience. Easy enough to size up a little with PC.

    Last edited by jdgabbard; 01-27-2023 at 11:44 AM. Reason: Adding correct info.
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  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    Thank you Wrideout.
    I will try loading those 100 gr PC'ed Boolits with starting at 5.0 gr of Unique.
    From what I have seen , my Chinese Pistol just doesn't seem as durable as other Tokerevs like the Russian , Romanian or CZ's
    And it is always smarter to start out lower and work up a load for your gun.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHawk View Post
    Been there done that.

    I ..............

    But I have to admit, I love the Cz-52. It sits below my left elbow where I sit in my recliner, between the recliner and my table. It is ALWAYS loaded with one in the chamber, on safe with hammer cocked. If I need it all I need to do is flick the safety and go to. There are also about 6 knives and a tomahawk all within reach. Not counting the razor hidden in my lap table.

    No I'm not paranoid. I don't think anyone is out to get me. And as long as I am always ready, I'll probably never have to use any of it.

    But if your not ready, ol Murphy will get ya.
    If you have not I would carefully research how the safety and hammer work on the CZ52.

    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...arning.633919/
    For no special reason except to just check the gun, I removed the magazine and ejected the chambered round.
    I looked the gun over then fully reloaded it.
    Then I used the hammer drop safety to drop the hammer.
    The gun fired.
    Damn that was loud. My left ear drum is still sore.


    The bad news.
    1. The hammer drop "safety" failed. (I don't know why yet.)

    2. There's a hole clean through my shop wall.

    3. My left ear drum still hurts.

    4 My trust in the CZ-52 is now low (I have two).
    The people below were trying to sell something so the below is for an interested person to further research.

    CZ-52 Safety Notes
    The basic laws of firearms safety

    A gun is always loaded.
    If you believe that the gun is unloaded, see the first law.
    Never point the gun at anything you do not wish to shoot.
    Never put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to engage the target.
    Know your target and what is beyond.

    Safety / decocker operation and safety issues

    The CZ-52 safety has 3 settings:

    Fire (rotated all the way down)
    Safe (horizontal, hammer stays back)
    Decock (rotate up, returns to "safe")

    However, that is only the intent of the design. If the decocking notch is worn, the motion of the decocker may raise the firing pin detent and that has the same effect as pulling the trigger in the "Fire" position!

    Think carefully about that phrase "If the decocking notch is worn". This is a surplus weapon built in the early 1950s and possibly with much use before you bought it. The only safe assumption is that it is worn!

    Do not rely on the decocking mechanism to safely decock the CZ-52, especially if using the CZ-52-2 and CZ-52-3 redesigned firing pin plungers. If your decocking notch is worn, your pistol will likely fire when decocked.

    The original CZ-52 design included a rather ineffective firing pin block that becomes less trustworthy with wear. As stated above, all CZ-52s are old and most have seen significant use. The safety disables the trigger, but if the gun were dropped there is a chance that the hammer could fall and strike the firing pin. The CZ-52 should not be carried with a round in the chamber.

    The CZ-52-2 and CZ-52-3 firing pin kits effectively disable this relatively ineffective firing pin block mechanism. They instead use a spring return to retract the firing pin. This means that if the decocker is defective, as many are, the decocker is effectively a trigger.

    Here is what has come to be known as the "pencil test" of a CZ-52 decocker. It can warn you if your decocker is defective:

    Put a pencil into the barrel, eraser-end first. Activate the decocker. If the pencil moves at all, the decocker is basically a trigger!
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  17. #37
    Boolit Master
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    I run the Lee 311-93 boolits sized to .310 with BAC lube. I used Bullseye for the powder, I think I settled on 4.5gr. It runs my friends Norinco TT-33 just fine and he finds the accuracy good enough for his skill.
    8500' Wet Mountain Valley, Colorado

  18. #38
    Boolit Mold
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    Picking up old thread.
    I bought a soviet 1936 vintage TT-33 a couple of months ago. Fun gun to shoot but ammo is a bit expensive. I have ca. 95pcs of S&B 7.62x25 and 7.63 Mauser brass.
    Also converted 50 223rem brass to Tok. Not reamed or trimmed yet thou.

    My moulds that may suit Tokarev are Lee 311-100-2R and TL314-90-SWC. Also have RCBS .312" WC mould but doubt that feeds...
    Recommendations on good moulds are welcome.

    How hard lead should be used to cast bullets for Tokarev? I have pure lead, range scrap from airgun- and .22 ranges and also linotype.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by JiriK View Post
    Picking up old thread.
    I bought a soviet 1936 vintage TT-33 a couple of months ago. Fun gun to shoot but ammo is a bit expensive. I have ca. 95pcs of S&B 7.62x25 and 7.63 Mauser brass.
    Also converted 50 223rem brass to Tok. Not reamed or trimmed yet thou.

    My moulds that may suit Tokarev are Lee 311-100-2R and TL314-90-SWC. Also have RCBS .312" WC mould but doubt that feeds...
    Recommendations on good moulds are welcome.

    How hard lead should be used to cast bullets for Tokarev? I have pure lead, range scrap from airgun- and .22 ranges and also linotype.
    So, you can see my custom mold above. Here is a link to it's description: https://bulletmatch.com/bullets/moun...ulds-311-90-rf

    Accurate molds has a VERY similar mold that was designed a little while after I designed my mold. It can be found here: https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet...bullet=31-085G

    I typically use an alloy of 50/50+2%, which is pretty common. But the real test with the Toks is going to be getting a fat enough boolit to still chamber. This seems to be hit or miss. Just like with every other caliber, proper boolit size is often more important than hardness.
    JDGabbard's Feedback Thread

    "A hand on a gun is better than a cop on the phone," Jerry Ellis, Oklahoma State House of Representatives.

    The neighbors refer to me affectionately as, "The nut up on the ridge with the cannon." - MaxHeadSpace.

    Jdgabbard's very own boolit boxes pattern!

  20. #40
    Boolit Mold
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    Thanks, jdgabbard. Those bullets look good. Tried to search if mpmolds offers something similar, but didnīt find anything.

    I have loaded Berrys 32cal .312" 71grain bullets. Those fit in the chamber, but I think the barrel has major dia of .314" (need to measure it again to verify)
    Berrys work ok, I tested loads of 0.34-0.42g of N340. 0.40g or more and the gun cycles. All holes were round so no issues there.

    Itīs getting a bit cold here but I try to cast some test bullets with those lee molds I have. I donīt have wheelweights so I maybe 50/50 rangescrap/Linotype? Or softer, 1/3-2/3?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check