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View Poll Results: which is better for whitetail deer

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Thread: Hot .357mag vs mild 44mag for deer hunting

  1. #61
    Boolit Buddy
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    Howdy 9.3X62AL; gotta question for ya.

    I noticed you spoke of recoil in relation to your .45 Colt Blackhawk revolver and, in the next sentence, referred to the "magic" you found in the Bisley grip style.

    I've always been amazed at how the old Colt single-action "plow handle" grip shape, and the very similar standard Blackhawk grip, seems to tame the recoil effects of the magnum revolver cartridges, in comparison to the recoil produced by the same cartridges in a handgun with the usual double-action grip design. The magnum pistol cartridges bellow and roar no mater what they are fired in, but to my tender, pansy hands they actually hurt when fired in double-action grip style handguns, yet produce no pain at all with the old single-action plow-handle grip.

    My guess is the double-action grip shape directs more of the recoil force straight back into the palm of the hand, producing a potentially painful "hand-slap," whereas the angle and curves of the single-action grip style cause the revolver grip to slip through the hand as the gun twists in the hand under the muzzle rise of recoil. It seems to me that much of the recoil force is dissipated as the single-action grip twists downward through the shooters grasp as the muzzle twists upward in recoil.

    I've never fired a single-action revolver with the Bisley grip shape, and I'm wondering how that grip shape effects perceived recoil in relation to the more usual single-action grip style. Do you find the Bisley shape is gentler on the hand during recoil, or is there some other reason for the "magic" you find in the design? I know the Bisley-style grip originated in single-action target revolvers, so I'm also wondering if you find any accuracy benefits in the design.

    What, if anything, would I gain if I were to somehow substitute a Bisley-style grip for the original "plow-handle" grip on my .41 Magnum Ruger Blackhawk?

    Happy trails,

    -- Cary Gunn --

  2. #62
    Boolit Master
    Chad5005's Avatar
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    id go with the 44 bigger holes are always better

  3. #63
    Boolit Man
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    Bisley grip is a little longer allowing all fingers to hold the grip in addition to a little different shape.

  4. #64
    Boolit Master
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    I have a late '90's large frame 45 Colt Ruger 7.5" Bisley Blackhawk that I love because, even tho I have small hands, with that longer grip, I feel like I can get all my fingers on it, and it makes me feel like I have much more control of the gun. Also that grip angle suits my wrist I guess. It seems that the recoil from a Bisley gripped gun pushes straight back against the palm , instead of trying to roll up like on a SAA grip frame. This helps me a lot with accuracy.

  5. #65
    Without question the .44 would be the top choice every time. Having killed everything from elk to ground squirrels with a .44, I can attest to the practical effectiveness of the cartridge/projectile. The standard 10 grains Unique with a 240/250 grain Cast SWC is a stellar all around load.

  6. #66
    Boolit Bub kingrj's Avatar
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    I have never killed a deer with a .357 mag but I have killed 7 deer with a 158 grain JHP in .357 caliber using a .357 Max and a .357 Herrett as well as about 40 or so using .44 mags with both jacketed and cast bullets plus some with .45 LC and .45 super using cast bullets exclusively. Not much of a sample but I got higher percentage of drop on the spot kills with JHP's loaded to the max in the .44 mag than anything else. Some shot with the Herrett dropped like a dime and some shot the same place ran over 100 yards...As long as penetration was sufficient in any of those calibers I got meat in the freezer..Deer don't take much if you hit them right...Hit them wrong with a cannon and you will NOT find them and if bullet over expands before it gets to vitals you are in trouble...Otherwise I think you could easily kill dear at close range with a 9mm as long as the bullet penetrated..That is why I am partial to big fat cast flat nosed handgun bullets. Never had anything but excellent penetration...I cannot say the same for some brands of 200 grain JHP's in the .44 mag. Lot of rambling but to answer you directly either is a good choice.

  7. #67
    Boolit Master

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    The 44 boolit in the OP's post is SUCH a more effective boolit for deer, there shouldn't even be a question comparing a smaller, faster, softer, j-word.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throat reaming? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? Shoot me a PM! Also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Cylinderhone-756429174391912/

  8. #68
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    I am not at all a 43 Mag fan... But limited to the two I choose the 44 SWC over the hot 357.

    I HAVE used both and many more 45COLT loads @ same velocities/style bullet with GREAT success.

    My Marlin 357 MAG (18") with a XTP FP Loaded to 2020 fps is a good killer. But my 45 Colt (20") loaded with a 255 SWC at about 1400fps is a FAR and AWAY better killer. A Light 43 Mag load with a lead SWC would be same vel and power range.

    Speaking to shooting Deer and Hogs at least.

    I see the 357 Max added to the foray its a closer match up. I have taken dozens with my three Maximums. nearly as many as I have with the 45 Colt and they are very very close in killing power. Even when upping the 45 COLT with a 300G (Speer FP) bullet at 1800 ps. That MAXI in a 20" hits 2200 fps with a 180SSP and is pure deer/hog poison inside 150 ish yards!! MOSTLY Bang flops with both the Maxi and LC.

    CW EDIT:

    Speaking to hand guns I too prefer the Bisley for the heavy hunting loads.

    Last edited by cwlongshot; 08-29-2018 at 07:23 AM.
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  9. #69
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwlongshot View Post
    I am not at all a 43 Mag fan... But limited to the two I choose the 44 SWC over the hot 357.

    I HAVE used both and many more 45COLT loads @ same velocities/style bullet with GREAT success.

    My Marlin (18") with a XTP FP Loaded to 2020 fps is a good killer. But my 45 Colt (20") loaded with a 255 SWC at about 1400fps is a FAR and AWAY better killer. A Light 43 Mag load with a lead SWC would be same vel and power range.

    Speaking to shooting Deer and Hogs at least.

    I see the 357 Max added to the foray its a closer match up. I have taken dozens with my three Maximums. nearly as many as I have with the 45 Colt and they are very very close in killing power. Even when upping the 45 COLT with a 300G (Speer FP) bullet at 1800 ps. That MAXI in a 20" hits 2200 fps with a 180SSP and is pure deer/hog poison inside 150 ish yards!! MOSTLY Bang flops with both the Maxi and LC.

    CW

    a 45 caliber SWC at 1400 fps is far and away better than an XTP at 2020 fps? Are you saying the hollow point causes too much damage?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    a 45 caliber SWC at 1400 fps is far and away better than an XTP at 2020 fps? Are you saying the hollow point causes too much damage?
    Actually, neither is a HP. This XTP is a FP design and the SWC more like a solid. (Depending on how cast of coarse)

    CW
    Last edited by cwlongshot; 08-28-2018 at 03:01 PM.
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  11. #71
    Boolit Master
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    Can you post a link? Are we talking a Hornady XTP bullet, or something else? I have XTP's in almost every caliber, every single one is a hollow point. An XTP hollow point is a fantastic bullet in 44 mag. Unless you want or need a bullet to penetrate 4 feet of animal, the XTP will cause more damage than a hard SWC.

  12. #72
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    Can you post a link? Are we talking a Hornady XTP bullet, or something else? I have XTP's in almost every caliber, every single one is a hollow point. An XTP hollow point is a fantastic bullet in 44 mag. Unless you want or need a bullet to penetrate 4 feet of animal, the XTP will cause more damage than a hard SWC.
    YES, it is a XTP its just a 158G FP version of a XTP HP Bullet.

    https://www.hornady.com/bullets/hand...8-gr-fp-xtp#!/

    Hornady also makes a 125G Version.

    https://www.hornady.com/bullets/hand...5-gr-fp-xtp#!/

    CW
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  13. #73
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    The top link brings me to "38 Cal .357 158 gr FP XTP". Both links are clearly hollow points.

    That's besides the point though. I didn't understand your first post. I thought you were saying a 45 cal XTP at 2000+ FPS had nothing on a 45 caliber SWC at 1400 FPS. I've never seen, or at least noticed a FP XTP, but try the 180 grain XTP (it is a hollow point). Velocity was around 1250 fps from a 4 5/8" blackhawk, 357 mag with lil' gun, and is as good a deer round as you can ask for. You will never get deer to always fall on the spot, but a lung shot deer wont run 50 yards with that load.

  14. #74
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    The manufacturer calls it a FP... If the jacket covered the tip it would be a total metal jacket.. the SLIGHT indentation is simply part and parcel to the manufacturing process.

    I have used this bullet (158g FP XTP) since it came out! In the 357MAG lever, and Blk Hawk as well as a MAXIMUM Contender 10&21" and H&R rifles in 17, & 22". It would very well. It SURPASSES the velocity range of any HP bullet. HP bullets should not be used on big game when fired form a rifle. they can and will over expand and UNDER penetrate.

    I have shot Coyotes with the 125FP bullet in the Maximum at over 2500 fps. it acts like the best deer bullet with quarter sized exit holes. I wont use it on deer, but the 158 is good to just about 2K after that IT TOO comes apart. This is no conjecture. Its first hand experience. You can choose to do with it how ever you like it was freely given.

    CW
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  15. #75
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwlongshot View Post
    The manufacturer calls it a FP... If the jacket covered the tip it would be a total metal jacket.. the SLIGHT indentation is simply part and parcel to the manufacturing process.

    I have used this bullet (158g FP XTP) since it came out! In the 357MAG lever, and Blk Hawk as well as a MAXIMUM Contender 10&21" and H&R rifles in 17, & 22". It would very well. It SURPASSES the velocity range of any HP bullet. HP bullets should not be used on big game when fired form a rifle. they can and will over expand and UNDER penetrate.

    I have shot Coyotes with the 125FP bullet in the Maximum at over 2500 fps. it acts like the best deer bullet with quarter sized exit holes. I wont use it on deer, but the 158 is good to just about 2K after that IT TOO comes apart. This is no conjecture. Its first hand experience. You can choose to do with it how ever you like it was freely given.

    CW
    Sounds like very good advice, thank you.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check