Swedish RB 12.7x44 to 50-70

[Wolfer]

The "other" one is either a m/60-64-68 or m/64-68 as evidenced by the position of the rear sight.
Is it 6mm or 8-10mm in front of the receiver?

What's the maker's mark on the right side of the receiver?
There should be a date on the underside of the barrel under the handguard. Its a conversion from
an earlier rifle.

Dutch

I don't know Mm but I think it's slightly bigger than a .244 bullet.
The right side has a crown with a C under it.
The date under the barrel is 1867. The date on the action is 1869

[Wolfer]

Wolfer. I looked hard at your bottom rifle. I bought the rifle just below it on Simpson's and figured it would ship cheap when combined with another purchase. Rear sight had me confused as I had not seen one like it but it seems Dutchman has. Simpsons had your bottom rifle listed as a Good Bore, after cleaning do you agree??

Anyway, good luck and have fun with them...

There was so much crud in this bore it would have been impossible to see what it was. My last 67/89 was listed as fair bore and I wish my inline had this good a barrel.

The rifling is unreal deep in these rifles. I can't see stripping ever being an issue. Leading perhaps. If I was stuck with this barrel I could always paper patch. But when a suitable/ affordable blank shows up I'll rebarrel if needed. I may lap it but if it shoots ok I'll just shoot it.

[Wolfer]

I ordered two more of the 8x58s today. I wanted three but that $125 one that was missing parts was gone a couple minutes after they opened.

My brother wanted these.

[Wolfer]

I'll give it a try Dutch, would really hate to not be able to use the two moulds with these rifles since the bore is more suited to these diameters, I'll trim some back to see just how short they need to be in order to chamber, and if a shorter one will chamber and at what length.

I ordered the lee mold and .510 sizer last night. My muzzle says I need a .515. This is my plan also.

[Wolfer]

I got the Lee mold and it casts very pretty boolits at .515. In the dark rifle these chamber great with the brass cut to 1.730.
With 12.5 gr unique these are quite pleasant to shoot and short range off hand shooting makes me feel this gun my shoot regardless of its rough bore. Which measures .515, fired cases measure .517.

The blond gun. With the brass cut to 1.600 and the boolit sized to .510 it chambers fine. However a fired case only measures 5.10
The end of the barrel is egged. .510 at the widest and about .502 the other way. I didn't measure the lands.

I wonder if something didn't happen and that's why the barrel was sawn off. There is no front sight and no spot where one has been.
While Ive run a few shots through it I can't check for accuracy before I put a sight on it. The barrel is still about 32" long. I think I'll slug it from the breech and knock it back out to see if it's round. I may need to trim a little before sweating a ramp on it.

Correction. I just slugged the barrel at the muzzle. .509 all around. Breech end was .510

[MOA]

Wolfer, glad they are chambering. Mine shortened to 1.7255 still would not chamber. I just ordered another Foster trimmer to deal with my longer than standard cases so when it gets here I'll start the cut down on one 50 Alaskan case to see how short the case needs to be in one of my rollers. I'll just cut and try one rifle, then keep going back an forth between the two rifles, most likely they are going to accept different lengths, we'll see. I just hope I don't end up too short! Not interested in have a 12,7x44R Kurtz.

[17nut]

The original chambering was 12,17x42R for a 1.653" chamber!
Some might have escaped conversion to 44mm~1.732".





The change for a 44mm chamber was to get more speed from another 5 grains of BP.
The hollow base bullet was found to have poor accurasy and was superseeded by the bullet in the French drawing.

[MOA]

Thanks Nut, I hadn't thought of that happening, well we'll see if that end up being the area of where a fit starts to occur, if so, then I'll decide if I just have them both reamed out to fifty seventy and be done with it, or maybe just have it reamed out to the full length of the fifty alaskan and just load it at fifty seventy load data,lol

[Wolfer]

The way I derived the 1.600 measurement. I loaded a sized round in a dummy case and stuck it in the chamber until it touched. Measured the distance from the rim to the back of the barrel. .130
This chamber is considerably shorter than the other. Sized brass can't be longer than 1.732
I'm toying with the idea of honing my chamber slightly. I don't need much and all my brass could be the same length.
On the other hand since these rifles need different sized boolits the short case would make it easer to distinguish them apart.
These rifles are a lot easier to get shooting than my 8x58 was. Mostly due to my unwillingness to buy the dies.

[MOA]

Wolfer, I didn't buy dies for my 8x58Rd either, I did fire form my hungarian brass neck size and had Lee make me a custom factory crimp so I can add a little neck tension without squeezing the you know what out of the boolit. My boolits out of the karibiner mould are .326 so just a little fat, I only have to open the mouth up a hair to fit them in.

[MOA]

Wolfer, here is an update on my trimming activities. The Longer Foster trimmer showed up today, along with a #8 collet and a .505 pilot. Of course had to deal with mounting it so it could be used properly so I had a 5x18x3/4 piece of MDF from the shop here so I mounted one on each end (the Original, and the Classic). Cut down a full length 50 Alaskan to 44MM then I scribed a line on it at 42MM, and then using the trimmer cut it down to 42mm and then I grabbed one of my 450 gr .515 dia boolits from the Lee mould and I had to open up the mouth of the case just a bit to get it to go in. Now the trimmed case was .505 before opening it up for the boolit which was sized to .510. After I got it into the case and seated to where I would seat a loaded cartridge I then but it back into the trimmer and loaded the trimmer up with one of the pistol hollow pointer accessories I got for the trimmer back in 81 and finally got to use it for something, anyhow, I used the hollow point so I could put a small screw into it and be able to pull the boolit out and re trim if needed multiple times until it fit. 17Nut mentioned that in some cases it was possible some rifles missed getting the chambers lengthened to the 44MM "AND" "might" still be at 42MM which was the initial Rim Fire cartridge length. Well when I shortened the case to 42MM and took that .510 sized boolit that would not fit with the case being 44MM it fit without any problem. Now, that was just in the Husquvarna rifle, I still have to see what is going to happen with the Remington rifle. I will tackle that tomorrow, I am kinda hoping that the shortened case will fit in both, that way I may not need to relinquish half the cases to each of the rifles and then have to keep track on what is where. Here are some images of the setup.

[Wolfer]

I don't have one of those fancy trimmer things. Ive thought about getting one. I use the lee trimmer system on everything else I have but the cutter isn't big enough for 50 cal. I'll make a couple file type dies soon as I get a chance.
Ive been cutting them close with a tubing cutter ( which is a real pain ) then using a bench grinder to get to final length. Not very square but they go bang and I'll square them up when I get my dies made.
Since one of mine needs .515 boolits and the other needs .510 I'm going to cut two different lengths of brass. That will make it easier to know what size boolit I have.

I'm also going to make an M type die for the .510 boolit. It doesn't have the case tension I would like. If I recall the expander is .510 for the .515 boolit.

[enfield]

Most of my 12mm's are also restricted to about 1.6". One has a wonky chamber that requires me to index the rounds so they always go in the same way. All of them take the Lee 450 sized to .510 . they will shoot the .515 but it just makes a tighter fit than they really need.

[corbinace]

I am subscribing to this thread, as I could not find it when I wanted it yesterday.

[MOA]

I don't have one of those fancy trimmer things. Ive thought about getting one. I use the lee trimmer system on everything else I have but the cutter isn't big enough for 50 cal. I'll make a couple file type dies soon as I get a chance.
Ive been cutting them close with a tubing cutter ( which is a real pain ) then using a bench grinder to get to final length. Not very square but they go bang and I'll square them up when I get my dies made.
Since one of mine needs .515 boolits and the other needs .510 I'm going to cut two different lengths of brass. That will make it easier to know what size boolit I have.

I'm also going to make an M type die for the .510 boolit. It doesn't have the case tension I would like. If I recall the expander is .510 for the .515 boolit.

Wolf, I know what you mean re the pipe cutter it is a real pita, but I got a dremel tool for xmas, just a small one the 100 or 200 series, not real expensive and then somewhere i saw someone had it set up on a vertical press which I though wow, I wonder how expensive the press was cause I thought that would make the dremel a lot more handy for my reloading than just a tool to use around the house and garage. It is like 45 bucks and I now use it to shorten all my shotgun hulls when the crimp is splitting, so I cut them back 1/4 inch and make shortys out of them, anyways I started cutting the cases down close to 44MM with the dremel on the stand, and then clean up the cut with the deburring hand tool before using the trimmer on the cases. I really hated to have to buy another trimmer, but like you, the size of the cutter head on the Original trimmer I got back in 1981, the cutter shaft and cutter was too small in diameter to cut the 12MM case, so I called Forster and talked with them about my options and I had only two ways to go if I wanted to use the Forster tool to trim with, I could have purchased just the bigger shaft with larger cutter, but then I would have to buy the larger bearing for it and the larger bearing and larger collet lock piece for the other end and paid the same or more than if I just got the Classic trimmer that came with all those pieces and was mounted on a longer plate, and since I still have to trim the 9.3x74R cases, it seemed the only way to go dollar wise. Today I'm going to see if the 42MM is going to fit the Remington action, and maybe cast up some more boolits in the 450 - 500 molds, I'm thinking I may have to resort to using Unique as a power source for the 500 cause with them now cut down to 42 MM there just is not much room left for black in that case with the heavier boolit. If I want fast in these rifles I think it will be left up to the Lyman plains boolit of 390 grains to get any velocity without getting into pressure problems. Here is some images of the vertical workstation that dremel offers, most of the home depots carry the small dremel and the stand that fits it.



Cutting down the shotshells.




Cutting down the 50 Alaskan for the 12MM

[Wolfer]

I have the Dremel. I don't have the stand. Today I made a die that goes on my press that I run the case thru, hacksaw the majority off and file to fit.
I didn't have any high carbon stock so I just made it from mild steel. By being careful I believe I can make all the cases I need. I doubt these will ever need trimmed.

I also made an expander plug for the rcbs die. The original is .510 and my new one is .507 which doesn't put a lot of tension but I can't move the boolits by hand now.

Brownells is sending me a couple fiber optic sights. Can't wait to try them out.
I missed a crow out the kitchen window this morning. I don't think he was over 50 yds but I wasn't sure where to hold. Good times anyway.

[MOA]

Sounds like your having fun anyways, that's 90 percent of the idea huh. Tru these straight walled cases should not be growing much if any at all so your good to go without the extra expense, me, always looking for an excuse to add to my reloading gear, most likely I'll regret it someday, but that day ain't here yet, lol. As long as the boolit isn't moving your good to go from what I hear. Let me know all about those fiber sights, my eyesight ain't what it was just two years ago, who know what in two more years, lol. Thanks for the update Wolfer.

[koger]

So, let me get this straight. I need 50/70 or .50 Alaskan brass, trim to length that will let me seat a Lyman .50 caliber Plains bullet, full length size my brass, powder and seat the bullet with thumb pressure over a card wad and good to go? I have one of these rifles on the way, and another one a buddy recently got to load for the 2 of them.No need to crimp the case on the bullet?

[BlackpowderSweden]

In some Swedish 12,17x44R it is almost impossible to load a bullet that will fill the grooves to make a perfect gas seal.
Therefore we have a stop-ring / heel-base bullet that we use alot, a .502 slip fit sto the case and a stopring about .520 in front of the case mouth.
Or you size the bullet to .508 and seal with COW or a grease-cookie, otherwise you have leading...
Some civilian Husqvarna rifles have a very tight chamber as well.

[Dutchman]

So, let me get this straight. I need 50/70 or .50 Alaskan brass, trim to length that will let me seat a Lyman .50 caliber Plains bullet, full length size my brass, powder and seat the bullet with thumb pressure over a card wad and good to go? I have one of these rifles on the way, and another one a buddy recently got to load for the 2 of them.No need to crimp the case on the bullet?

.348 Winchester cases are the preferred donor cases. The .50 Alaskan may fit or may not. They are the same as 348 WCF cases just no neck and they tend to be thicker in the neck which can make them chamber harder and present more difficulty.

.50-70 Gov't cases are larger in the head diameter and rim. Not the best choice.

No crimp needed.

Dutch