major cw hinman

[BRUCE MOULDS]

thought i would post this in a new thread.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?...ew=1up;seq=327

this guy was there and did it, then went on to shoot the 30/06.
an interesting aside is he does not compare the 44 and 45 cal.
in the day they seem to have overlapped, with 1 at the tight end, and 1 at the loose end of bore and groove diameters.
keep safe,
bruce.

[BRUCE MOULDS]

interesting how hinman relates alloy hardness to patch thickness.
we don't hear much of this from modern shooters, although kurt has alluded to this more than once.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Don McDowell]

He isn't the only one from the time that related patch thickness to hardness. It was pretty common knowledge, so much so that Remington mentioned it in their 1875 catalog. Bodine wrote a pretty interesting letter to Sharps about bullet hardness, patch thickness and groove depth.
Most of us that have spent time and effort into shooting paper patch with match accuracy have relied pretty heavily on what those guys did, and have then went on to put it to practice to our own satisfaction.

[BRUCE MOULDS]

but people today are too scared to go harder than 16:1.
in fact they think that is a ahrd alloy.
hinman seems to suggest that 14:1 was soft.
old packets of long range bullets seen were all harder than 16:1.
people today are too scared to try things, relying on what is CONSIDERED fact.
when it does not work, they condemn it out of hand rather than work out the reason.
the ammount of comment on the link here is minimal.
put information in front of people, and if it does not suit the safety zone it is best avoided.
thinking is the problem.
here is a great piece of reality, but no one is interested as it is not in the fairy tale.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Don McDowell]

How exactly is it you know that people today haven't tried anything harder than 16-1? I know of several that have tried it and a couple still run it. I came to settle on 16-1 because it works and works well not only with patched but grease groove bullets as well. Bodine said he wanted his bullets no harder than 15-1. Winchester offered bullets in 11-1 or alloy to order. Surprising number of shooters at the 1879 Creedmoor meeting shot Winchester and UMC bullets.

[Don McDowell]

Bruce have you ever converted the 300$+ that Jackson won for being the top shooter at the 79 fall long-range match to todays dollars? It's rather astounding how much money that really was/is.

[Lead pot]

Hard alloy as hard as 15 BHN or more will work just fine with a GG bullet but it's a different story with a PP. When you patch 1/10 or 1/11 you better get behind that buttplate and do some shooting to find out what is needed to get them to fly straight. Some of the mind set that you can shoot the hard alloy patched one or two thousands under bore or even at bore and get good results just don't do the job because the paper will do all the work getting the rotation because the bullet will not bump up enough to make a full fill of the grooves in fact the land cuts are barley visible on the bullet shank. If the guys used this mix I would wager that they shot this bullet a few thousands over bore or even at groove diameter and seated the bullet deeper in the case or breach seated it or they would not close the breach with a sharps action or got a sore palm beating the ear on a roller closing it.. They would not have gotten the results they wanted at bore or slightly under bore diameter.
By the way, 35% tin 65% lead is about as hard as you can make T/L alloy that will give you about 15 BHN you need to add antimony or a mix with powdered copper of silver.

I just wonder that maybe the breach seating didn't get a start loading this hard alloyed over seized bullet into the bore because they could not thumb seat the round into the chamber and close the breach.

[BRUCE MOULDS]

kurt,
1:12 is as hard as i have gone with bore diameter pp.
i have however put 100s of rounds down at long range targets testing.
you nailed it when you said about the need to get behind the butt and pull the trigger.
i do not go by bhn nos, but just the alloy ratios.
i always understood that 1:10 could not be made much if any harder by adding more tin.
certainly patching to under bore with hard bullets is futile.
don,
back in the big days of scheutzen here in sth oz, there was a young man who could not afford to marry.
his solution was to buy a ballard, about $3000.00au in modern money, and turn around and win enough prize money to buy an orchard.
happy wife - happy life?
keep safe,
bruce.