Claybuster Wad legs compressing under roll-crimping. Bad or fuggidaboutit?

[Y-man]

Hello... I need some advice.
I have been loading Lyman 525 Slugs in Claybuster Wads. Of course everyone remembers I am simply pouring out shot and replacing with slugs of same or lighter weight.
I got these wads in the US, [They make wonderful protective packing material!] on Amazon, and have already used them with success for 00 Buckshot.
I noticed that these wads are a perfect height - as per shotcup depth, for the Lyman 525 slugs, but when roll-crimping, the support legs seem to get compressed a bit.
Is this compression a problem? Will it affect the slug negatively in any way?

Slug in Wad before insertion in shell.



Roll-crimped slugs: see compressed legs of Wads.



Is this a problem? Will it affect safety and accuracy?

Another thing I have had issues with for a long time, which I think I finally have a solution for: roll-crimping slugs and having the roll-crimp tool rub against the face of the slug. This could lead to Lead powder forming and contaminating my work area.

I have now solved it by either using the factory frangible over-shot disk, or by using a punched-out flat, extremely thin [From Plastic Plates] disk. This provides a smooth barrier that stops the roll-crimp tool from grating against the Lead slug itself.



This also provides the following benefits:
1. Different colour plastics can be used to differentiate different payloads or loads.
2. The Plastic Disk serves as a deeper seal against air and moisture.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Y-Man, to be very honest I never did like the quality of Claybuster wads, the compressed wads look very very clumsy. I'll still say if you have already loaded them then try shooting it and see if you can recover the wads to check its condition after firing.
The crimp does not look good enough to get the powder to burn efficiently.

Ajay Madan

[rsrocket1]

The compressed legs won't affect the flight of the slug. All wad legs eventually get compressed at 9-11,000 psi when the powder goes off. The wad keeps the slug going in a straight line down the barrel. I like the CB Lightning or Windjammer wads for my 1 oz Lee slugs. The 8 pedal wads are much thinner than the Winchester or Federal style CB wads and the fit is perfect for a standard 8 point fold crimp

[Hogtamer]

Why not fold crimp per lyman instructions for the 525?

[Y-man]

Dear Ajay,
If I may explain myself a bit more.
I am not looking for elegance or gracefulness for my slugs: what I am striving for is functionality. If the compressing of the wad legs, even if 'clumsy', will not affect the accuracy of the slug, then I am good.

I have seen slugs loaded with NO crimp at all, some sealed with glue etc, and they fired ok, and did not leave unburnt powder residue. It may not be clear in the pictures, but there is a solid crimping there I believe: its not 'perfect' but it has worked for me in the past.

I am basically just replacing loads - I do not have access to the equipment and materials you have. With this said, I must mention that the Claybuster wad is actually much better than the factory wads I have seen in my shells.

[Y-man]

Thank you Rsrocket1.

Hogtamer: Maybe I will look for the right equipment for that when I come to the US next? I simply do not have that, and will also explore improvising a Fold-Crimper... It could work!
But Lyman never said Roll-Crimping would not work: they are simply silent on that.

Remember also that I am basically and simply opening up birdshot shells and replacing Shot with slugs: this makes the shells shorter [Opening, trimming and smoothening rough edges etc] so I do not have much shell 'real estate' to work with.

Several people have had success with roll-crimp on Lyman 525. I have had success too with my rifled barrel. I am just improving things with a BETTER wad.

[bikerbeans]

Y-man,

When I load .69" RBs I intentionally compress the wad with approx. 50 pounds of force immediately before roll crimping. I don't have clear hulls to view the wad but the I am shortening the wad column about a 1/2 inch. The wad I use is a federal 12S3. Result is 1/2 minute of paper plate at 50 yards from a smoothbore. The accuracy is better from a rifled barrel.

BB

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Y-Man, I always used 60 lbs wad pressure on the slug and the wad would compress but those ones in the picture looked a bit more clumsy due to bad designing, You noticed the same and felt it was a bit too unusual and that's why you posted the picture and asked for others opinion.
I personally never used those pertcular wads in any of my tests. I did try other CB wads and even tho they might be good for regular shot loads, were not strong enough for our heavier slug loads.

Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[Y-man]

Thank you Mr. Madan. Thank you very much.
I noticed that the wads compressed a bit which was what I was asking about. I have fired a few with buckshot and Lee Key Slugs and the fired wads were the best I had seen in my small experience. I will take your advice and shoot them and see.

Many thanks.

[MT Chambers]

WHY-MAN...get yourself a cheap Mec 600 jr. shotshell press, it deprimes, primes, sizes, throws correct charge, seats wad, and applies correct fold crimp either 6 or 8 segment. Prolly $100 used.

[megasupermagnum]

WHY-MAN...get yourself a cheap Mec 600 jr. shotshell press, it deprimes, primes, sizes, throws correct charge, seats wad, and applies correct fold crimp either 6 or 8 segment. Prolly $100 used.

He is located in Nigeria, good luck with that.

The wad like that is plenty safe, no worries there. Accuracy, I'd say it will be fine. If anything, I'd say the roll crimp needs to be deeper. With that, Winchester wads are for tapered hulls, and you are using straight hulls. I can see your pictures that the powder is already migrating around the powder cup. Not a big deal, but not ideal.

[longbow]

Y-man has no access to powder or primers so is simply replacing shot with slug in factory loads.

What might be a help is a Lee LoadAll Junior. I have one that I used a bit but it is pretty basic. All Y-man would need it for is fold crimping so it should be good for that. They are small and inexpensive.

Even a Lee Loader in 12 ga. would do for him especially with the old Lee hammer style crimp starters. Unfortunately no longer available... except on that auction site.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lee-Loader-...-/142771321796

Still needs a crimp starter though.

Hmmmm... now that I am thinking on those lines, MEC has crimp starter I'm betting would work:

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/ME...tinfo/1308462/

Set it on top then whack it with a mallet or rubber faced hammer. After you need a Lee Loader type guide to finish the crimp. I loaded quite a number of slugs using a Lee Loader many years ago. Now it is MEC Sizemaster or MEC 600 Junior for me!

The closest I can find to an old Lee Loader is the Lane's and it looks pretty good:

http://www.lanesreloading.com/pdf/instrutions.pdf

This might give you some ideas to get something made locally. All you really need are the outer "barrel" and the crimp ram along with a crimp starter. I'm sure the Lane's is similar to Lee in that the top of the "barrel" has a conical taper to push the open crimp partially closed then the ram is pushed down from the top to set the crimp down. When done right my old Lee Loader made a pretty nice crimp. Tedious but effective.

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

Sorta thinking out loud.....seems like a metal mec crimper could be attached to a regular old "C" clamp in some way and made to work. ??

[jmort]

I use Down Range wads
I know you deconsrruct shells, is there any way to use the factory wad???

[Y-man]

I seem to have a solution more or less. I confirmed that among my birdshot shells - the previously fold-crimped ones are the ones showing these bent/ crushed cushion legs.
The shells that had been previously ROLL-CRIMPED open very well, and provide enough height to re-rollcrimp with slugs without having to press too much and achieving this:



So, henceforth - when reloading my birdshot shells: I will use the fold-crimp shells strictly to reload Buckshot (retaining the factory wads) and use the formerly roll-crimped ones for slugs (changing the wads to my new Claybusters-which I hope will work well!)
Many thanks all for advice and all.

JMort: thanks - I have been re-using the factory wads. With the Lyman, I had gotten good results too. [I once hit a 2inch target at 56 yards on a bet: I really enjoyed the money and worship that brought me in the village!]
Some wads would get mangled though.
I keep feeling like the new Claybuster wads I got will do even better: they seem more robust, and are perfectly of the right height and depth for the slugs. Well. let us see how it goes.

[jmort]

"I once hit a 2inch target at 56 yards on a bet: I really enjoyed the money and worship that brought me in the village!"

I know I can speak for everyone here, you are one awesome dude. We take so much for granted where you have to solve a problem and overcome challanges. That worship was hard-earned.