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Thread: MIHEC Elmer Keith Tribute 1928-2018 90 Years Ideal 429421 429422 "Exact Copy"

  1. #1
    I'm A Honcho! bluejay75's Avatar
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    MIHEC Elmer Keith Tribute 1928-2018 90 Years Ideal 429421 429422 "Exact Copy"

    Cast Boolit Brothers,

    I would like to introduce the first of a three part Tribute to Elmer Keith. We will start with the ever popular Elmer Keith Tribute 429421 and do an exact copy of the Ideal 429421, 429422 (Hollow Base). This mold will be offered in GC and PB and only one Hollow Point Option.

    Molds will be marked to mark the milestone and I would like to have the first 100 numbered.

    These will be followed by the 358429 and 454424 to close out the series.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    What say you?

    Bluejay
    Last edited by bluejay75; 04-23-2018 at 07:56 PM.
    You never know how you rank amongst men 'til you have seen what will break another man.
    The original "Bluejay" US Army/ US Navy 1945-1970.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master


    Nueces's Avatar
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    These were done a while ago by NOE. So, I don't need 'em. Don't keer, I expect to be in for one of each.

    Onward! Through the fog!

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    I'm in for 429422!
    KE4GWE - - - - - - Colt 1860, it just feels right.

  4. #4
    Boolit Mold
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    I'll take a 429421

  5. #5
    Boolit Bub
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    I might be interested in a 429421. The 358429 clone has been done a couple times by MP. What would be different?

  6. #6
    Boolit Man


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    I don't need any more swc molds but would take one of each anyway.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I’d be in for a 429421

  8. #8
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    I'd be in for a 429421 gchp.
    Steve,

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    Kilo Charlie zero Golf Papa Tango

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Highland Drifter's Avatar
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    I would be in for a numbered 358429 solid 4 cavity brass. My old Lyman mold has seen better days. Heck throw in a numbered 429421 solid 4 cavity brass as well.

  10. #10
    I'm A Honcho! bluejay75's Avatar
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    Gotcha taken care of sir...

    And by my count I think this one has enough interest to go live. We have new rules but Im sure this one is going to make minimum quickly.

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    You never know how you rank amongst men 'til you have seen what will break another man.
    The original "Bluejay" US Army/ US Navy 1945-1970.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Highland Drifter's Avatar
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    Is there any interest in including the H&G 258 for the 41 magnum in this series?

  12. #12
    Boolit Bub
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    I would be in for an original as Elmer designed "Exact Copy" of all the calibers including the H&G 258 Keith bullet.
    I have an original single cavity 429421 that I would be glad to send to someone to take measurements from.
    Can I suggest that if you signed up for the entire series that you could get a set that's consecutively numbered.
    Thanks, Bluejay

  13. #13
    Boolit Man Sig's Avatar
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    I'd be in for a 429421.

  14. #14
    I'm A Honcho! bluejay75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spillway View Post
    I would be in for an original as Elmer designed "Exact Copy" of all the calibers including the H&G 258 Keith bullet.
    I have an original single cavity 429421 that I would be glad to send to someone to take measurements from.
    Can I suggest that if you signed up for the entire series that you could get a set that's consecutively numbered.
    Thanks, Bluejay
    This is an interesting point.....PM me on how this would work please. Yes. I would like a handful of Boolits please. I was planning on giving them to some local engineering students for the specs...But I think Mihec can get it done with just the boolits.
    You never know how you rank amongst men 'til you have seen what will break another man.
    The original "Bluejay" US Army/ US Navy 1945-1970.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


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    Gotta be careful here. About all recent attempts to recreate Elmer's designs have failed, mostly because of design alterations made for some of the same reasons Lyman used to make changes. Elmer was incensed enough to deny the latter Lyman products in favor of H&G, the only maker he claimed to be producing to his design. Examples of two such alterations are the rounded lube groove and the smaller and narrower front band.

    Many reproduction attempts have also failed to get the nose profile right. I have not located any original language that completely specifies this profile, but I believe I have determined how it was first produced. I think the Keith nose was first made (in the 358429) from a smooth ogive design by filing down the cherry blank to produce the sharp shoulder, which Keith believed to provide a cutting terminal effect. We now know that no such cutting effect is produced in game, just in paper. Y'all look at old photos of the earliest designs and see if you see what I see concerning how the nose was made. The curve immediately behind the meplat appears to lead to a smooth ogive, before curving somewhat more sharply to intersect with the sharp shoulder.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Highland Drifter's Avatar
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    Is the H&G 503 clone made by MP molds not a true copy of the 44 Keith SWC? Lyman has altered the Lyman 429421 several times over the years.

  17. #17
    I'm A Honcho! bluejay75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nueces View Post
    Gotta be careful here. About all recent attempts to recreate Elmer's designs have failed, mostly because of design alterations made for some of the same reasons Lyman used to make changes. Elmer was incensed enough to deny the latter Lyman products in favor of H&G, the only maker he claimed to be producing to his design. Examples of two such alterations are the rounded lube groove and the smaller and narrower front band.

    Many reproduction attempts have also failed to get the nose profile right. I have not located any original language that completely specifies this profile, but I believe I have determined how it was first produced. I think the Keith nose was first made (in the 358429) from a smooth ogive design by filing down the cherry blank to produce the sharp shoulder, which Keith believed to provide a cutting terminal effect. We now know that no such cutting effect is produced in game, just in paper. Y'all look at old photos of the earliest designs and see if you see what I see concerning how the nose was made. The curve immediately behind the meplat appears to lead to a smooth ogive, before curving somewhat more sharply to intersect with the sharp shoulder.
    The square grease groove is not the best from a design standpoint and will lead to a higher than normal reject rate. It will be the original designs.
    You never know how you rank amongst men 'til you have seen what will break another man.
    The original "Bluejay" US Army/ US Navy 1945-1970.

  18. #18
    I'm A Honcho! bluejay75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highland Drifter View Post
    Is the H&G 503 clone made by MP molds not a true copy of the 44 Keith SWC? Lyman has altered the Lyman 429421 several times over the years.
    Its the same from the front driving band to the nose. But the grease groove was changed as the prototype gave 30-40% rejects from the square grease groove. This is caused by the temp that the alloy has to be run to get that part of the boolit to form and release.
    You never know how you rank amongst men 'til you have seen what will break another man.
    The original "Bluejay" US Army/ US Navy 1945-1970.

  19. #19
    I'm A Honcho! Wasalmonslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highland Drifter View Post
    Is the H&G 503 clone made by MP molds not a true copy of the 44 Keith SWC? Lyman has altered the Lyman 429421 several times over the years.

    The hg 503 was designed by Keith for Hensley and Gibbs.
    This was his true to form design. The Lyman 429421 was modified by Lyman away from Keith’s true design.
    Here is a link to clarify this - http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_12_KeithSWC.htm
    Read the whole article it explains Keith’s designs and how Lyman played with them and H&G made them true to form!

  20. #20
    Boolit Master Highland Drifter's Avatar
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    If the H&G molds were true to Elmer's designs this series should be cloning the H&G molds, and not the Lyman.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check