.40-65 to .40-70 s/s ?

[rfd]

wondering if that's doable, particularly for a .40-70 s/s PPB chamber. i know the current chamber dimensions will be the crux of the matter.

[sharpsguy]

Not unless you rebarrel the rifle. The parent case of the 40-65 is the 45-70 which has a LOT bigger rim than the 40-70ss. I have rifles in both calibers and the 40-65 is a lot easier to live with. The 40-70 can be quirky and hard to get to shoot accurately, and it can be inconsistent. That, coupled with the fact that cases for the 40-70 are expensive, and frequently unavailable really tips the scales in favor of the 40-65.

[rfd]

thanx for the scoop, sharpsguy. was hoping to get a .40 ppb chamber without rebarreling.

[Randy Bohannon]

sharps guy is 100% correct, I will add the 40-70 SS can and will shoot with any 40 cal b/p cartridge.Be prepared to try everything/anything to get target grade accuracy, hunting accuracy is not hard to obtain.Most new production chambers for 40-70 SS is for greasers @45 deg. transitions.40-70 SS was not designed for greasers it was a p.p. deal during it's heyday, get a 40-70 SS with P.P. chamber and patch to groove or bore they shoot very well a bit faster twist than 1:16 could benefit long heavier bullets.

[Don McDowell]

There's really no reason why a standard chamber won't shoot paper patch just fine. If nothing else have a 7 degree lead cut in the chamber you have now and go on with life.

[rfd]

thanx randy. i'm just starting to work up a ppb load with this pedersoli .40-65 and its greaser chamber and had wishful thinking to get it magically transformed to a pb chamber. the current load is a BACO JM393425 slick @ 422 grains with 1:20 alloy over a .050 card wad, over 65.2 grains of swiss 1-1/2f, with .030 compression. will try .060 ldpe wad next.

[bob208]

it can be done but the work involved unless you are doing it your self is very expensive.

you bore out your existing chamber press in a sleeve and chamber it to the smaller cartage.

[Lead pot]

A 45 degree chamber end will shoot a PP with out a problem. If you want a more gentle transition for the throat it will cost around 90. to $100. with shipping to get a throating reamer made. The best way is to make a chamber cast time and date it when you made the cast and send it to PT&G and tell them what you want for the transition from the chamber wall 3 degree or more or even a compound like say 5 degree/1.5 or what ever. You can cut the change yourself with out using a lathe with proper precautions and common sense to support the shank of the reamer so it is kept on center axis so you don't cut a eccentric neck.

I don't call the gentle transition a PP chamber I call it a lead bullet chamber

[sharpsguy]

rfd--You are shooting a bullet that is too heavy. I have a Shiloh 40-65 AND a 40-65 Pedersoli that is just like yours. Both will shoot the same paper patch load. The bullet is a 385 grain round nose out of a mold by Steve Brooks. Cases are Remington, and the powder is 60 grains of Goex 2f set off by a CCI BR2 primer.

Powder is drop tubed into the case, then compressed with a compression die so that it is .460 from the top of the powder to the case mouth. A wad cut from a milk carton goes on top of the powder, then a 3/16 thick grease cookie followed by another card wad cut from a milk carton. The bullet is placed on the wad and held in place by a taper crimp out of a 40 cal. Lyman taper crimp die. The bullet sits .200 down in the case.

The bullet is .396 diameter AFTER patching, and can be loaded and shot dirty without wiping. You would be amazed at how accurate this load is and how hard it hits.

[country gent]

I believe 40-70 is normally made from 30-40 brass ( maybe 303 brass I'm working from memory here) or 405 win basic brass, depending on how the rim thickness is cut.

[rfd]

i don't like or want to deal with grease cookies.

for a light short distance (200yds) .45-70 load, i got around that by using a pair of .025" milk carton wads, and pair of 1/8" hard felt wads, and another pair of milk carton wads, all punched out with a cornell press die and a light swiss 1-1/2f 60 grain lightly compressed powder column, which benched at a 200yd 1 moa with an accurate 415 grain slick that patched to .449+". this was also in the grease chambered pedersoli roller and i was kinda surprised at that short bullet's accuracy. i would have thought that a longer bullet would be better, to get more of it into the rifling and past the freebore.

however, for the .40-65, i want try try for a good full power load and a heavy, long bullet. i shot in a 200yd windy match with it yesterday and though my shooting was not up to my par at least all bullets left round holes in the paper. this was a 65 grain load under that 422 grain slick with just a pair of ,025" milk carton wads and about .030" compression, using starline fire formed brass. i just built some cartridges with 68 grains of swiss 1-1/2f under a .060" ldpe wad with .060" compression. lots of other combinations to test out, half the fun of these guns and cartridges, right?

[country gent]

I'm still using a grease cookie under my PP bullets. In my 40-65 with I believe the same bullet you are shooting it is capable of cleaning the rams at 500yds.( Last time I shot them I put 20 rds on a 6" gong at 200 yds. with gong to spare). In dry summer heat keeping fouling soft is hard for me. My load is 62 grns Olde ensforde, .060 napa rubber fiber wad compressed to needed depth. .090 spg grease cookie. playing card wad and 2 tracing paper wads. then the PP 422 grn bullet hand seated. I can fire 15-18 rounds with out cleaning.

I have tried no cookie and wiping but its more than I can do in the time limits.

[country gent]

I forgot I also wipe the patched bullets with a very light coat of JoHoBa oil before seating.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

For questions like this a piece of old-fashioned graph paper and a pencil can be useful.

[sharpsguy]

Suit yourself, but the original Sharps factory used a 3/16 grease cookie in their paper patched ammo, and it seemed to work pretty well. Good luck with re inventing the wheel--you're probably gonna need it.

[rfd]

why would i need to take up powder space with a grease cookie when i'm running bore wipers between each shot taken?

[country gent]

That's true and the Creedmore / long range shooter wiped between shots. Shutzen shooters loaded o case for the whole match, breec seated the bullets and wiped between shots. Theres many techniques out there that have been used succsefully. Its more what how you want to do it and what time constraints allow for.

[EDG]

You might be able to make it work by cutting off most or all of the old chamber. The chamber neck might be salvageable. If you have a long barrel it might be ok to cut off 2.1 inches if there is still enough beef to rethread.

I will add that I don't think anyone in his right mind would want a true original chamber for a .40-70 SS.
A coworker friend had an original Remington Hepburn in .40-70 SS.
When brass was turned to permit a groove diameter bullet his case mouths were like FOIL only .003 thick. When the chamber neck was bored to give .004 clearance for 9.3x74R brass accuracy was excellent with grease groove bullets.

[BRUCE MOULDS]

not only did creedmoor shooters wipe between shots, they breech seated as well, tuning for accuracy by adjusting the airgap between the bullet and the wad.
those that did not often muzzle loaded their cartridge rifles.
as for the guy that rechambered an original hepburn chamber, things like torment and ****ation come to mind.
another piece of history down the drain with a totally ruined original.
being too lazy to shoot the gun as it was designed to be shot is no excuse.
keeping the original barrel untouched and replacing it with another, differently chambered, is the only acceptable way to deal with that situation.
anyone in their right mind would shoot a true original chambered 40/70 - the way it was meant to be.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Lead pot]

rfd is the reason to change the .40-65 to the .40-70 to gain more powder capacity? There is always the option to deepen the chamber with a throating reamer to a .40-72 or 82. To make a .40-70 out of .40-65 change the barrel is the best option.


Bruce I agree with you not changing the throat on a original, but if the barrel is junk it is an option for a rebore if the barrel has enough diameter. The strange thing I do just toe opposite with my chambers I change the modern 45 degree wall to the original gentle transition
You keep mentioning the air gap breach seating I have never seen this mentioned in the old writings. I do a lot of breach seating but the case is in contact with the bullet base/no air gap/ well today I gave it a try to see if there is any benefit doing this and I must say that I did not see any change what so ever but I did not push it past 1/8". I wonder if their thought back then was to get that bullet base past the transition of the chamber end into the throat so the base of the bullet did not have to get swaged back down to groove depth"?????????