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Thread: .45 ACP loading woes!

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold Md2hunt's Avatar
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    .45 ACP loading woes!

    So I cast my 1st bullets and have finally had a chance to load this weekend. Went thru all of the steps to prep -

    Lead- Cast the lead, lubed with Alox, dried on wax paper, (bought a Lee .452 resizer) resized several, set up my press.

    Casings - Resized and de-primed several, set the expander die to max allowed and will still drop easily into my bullet guage.

    Dry run/check - I loaded several making a few adjustments and out of the 1st 4-5 testers only 1 would drop in my bullet guage. The others would only drop most of the way down but stop at the extractor bevel. Been loading .452 for ACP for years and occasionally a few won’t drop all of the way in but usually due to a small nick in the rim but they always fire fine. I did run these dry testers through my pistol and there are no hang ups.

    Through more head scratching, measuring, re-setting adjustments, etc I’m wondering if this is worth the headache.

    All sizes check on calipers
    .452 lead
    .020 casing
    .472-.473 final load overall - usually drop right in the guage

    Maybe they’ll fire fine but wanted to see if there’s any answers. Am I missing something?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Is the bullet hitting the lead (beginning of the rifling)? Lead isn't an exact science with modern mass produced guns, so you may need to adjust the oal a tad. Lead bullets are generally a bit larger than cast and often have to be a bit shorter oal to "plunk" in modern guns with little or no lead. Your cartridge gage is probably a minimum sammi spec.
    "In God we trust, in all others, check the manual!"

  3. #3
    Boolit Master



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    I don't have a 1911 any more but when I did my test was this. Take the barrel out of the pistol. Drop each load round into the chamber, if it fit-- fine, if not it was reserved for my S&W .45acp revolver which will feed anything even close to spec.. I have never owned a bullet gauge so I have to do it the old fashion way. I found the pistol to be the best ammo gauge. Worked for me anyway, james

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    "set the expander die to max allowed" Not sure what you mean there but I always bell the case mouth just enough for a boolit to start into the case.
    Also, I ,usually use alox but in the 45-45-10 form. I lube them lightly, let dry, run through the lee sizer die, them lube them again.
    As to your overall length, I end up with varied oal depending on what boolit(or bullet) I'm loading.
    If I have a problem with the "plunk" test (using the barrel), usually an adjustment on oal or amount of crimp takes care of it. And I always crimp in a separate step from seating.

  5. #5
    Boolit Mold Md2hunt's Avatar
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    Semi wad cutters 200gr actually the lead seated down to the bevel flush so no lead touches the rifling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Md2hunt View Post
    So I cast my 1st bullets and have finally had a chance to load this weekend. Went thru all of the steps to prep -

    Lead- Cast the lead, lubed with Alox, dried on wax paper, (bought a Lee .452 resizer) resized several, set up my press.

    Casings - Resized and de-primed several, set the expander die to max allowed and will still drop easily into my bullet guage.

    Dry run/check - I loaded several making a few adjustments and out of the 1st 4-5 testers only 1 would drop in my bullet guage. The others would only drop most of the way down but stop at the extractor bevel. Been loading .452 for ACP for years and occasionally a few won’t drop all of the way in but usually due to a small nick in the rim but they always fire fine. I did run these dry testers through my pistol and there are no hang ups.

    Through more head scratching, measuring, re-setting adjustments, etc I’m wondering if this is worth the headache.

    All sizes check on calipers
    .452 lead
    .020 casing
    .472-.473 final load overall - usually drop right in the guage

    Maybe they’ll fire fine but wanted to see if there’s any answers. Am I missing something?

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Try fitting the offending round base first into the headspace gage. That will help id where the problem is and how to fix it. I learned that doing 5.56 mil brass that apparently had been fired in a very generous chamber.
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  7. #7
    Boolit Mold Md2hunt's Avatar
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    My expander will adjust to over bell where the casing won’t drop all the way into my guage. So I set it to open as far as possible w/out hanging up in the guage. If you’re saying my barrel is the way to test the bullet OAD, then they should be fine. Maybe I need to chuck the ol Dillon Bullet guage. Lol.
    Thanks for your comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pb Burner View Post
    "set the expander die to max allowed" Not sure what you mean there but I always bell the case mouth just enough for a boolit to start into the case.
    Also, I ,usually use alox but in the 45-45-10 form. I lube them lightly, let dry, run through the lee sizer die, them lube them again.
    As to your overall length, I end up with varied oal depending on what boolit(or bullet) I'm loading.
    If I have a problem with the "plunk" test (using the barrel), usually an adjustment on oal or amount of crimp takes care of it. And I always crimp in a separate step from seating.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Are you removing all the bell at the mouth? what is the measurement at the case head just in front of the web compared to other brass? could you have brass fired in a larger chamber than your firearm? Some pistols leave a small bulge at the web body junction that may not be being sized out completely.

    Check your sizing die and shell holder to ensure it contacting the and slight "bump" felt at top of stroke. This sets full length sizing at the most possible. Size 5-10 cases and test in your gage. Lightly expand bell case mouth, only enough to allow bullet to enter case with out shaving. seat bullets to OAL and then crimp in a separate step. This gives better control of oal and crimp. Test again in gage.

  9. #9
    Boolit Mold Md2hunt's Avatar
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    I don’t have a crimp die and have never used one.
    What’s the 45-45-10 form?
    Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Pb Burner View Post
    "set the expander die to max allowed" Not sure what you mean there but I always bell the case mouth just enough for a boolit to start into the case.
    Also, I ,usually use alox but in the 45-45-10 form. I lube them lightly, let dry, run through the lee sizer die, them lube them again.
    As to your overall length, I end up with varied oal depending on what boolit(or bullet) I'm loading.
    If I have a problem with the "plunk" test (using the barrel), usually an adjustment on oal or amount of crimp takes care of it. And I always crimp in a separate step from seating.

  10. #10
    Boolit Mold Md2hunt's Avatar
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    I’ll go through and check that process. Usually arfer I resize the drop in the guage easily. So I spot check after the expander and they still drop right in. Maybe expander isn’t open quite enough because I still see minimim shaving.
    Thank you for the help
    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    Are you removing all the bell at the mouth? what is the measurement at the case head just in front of the web compared to other brass? could you have brass fired in a larger chamber than your firearm? Soame pistols leave a small bulge at the web body junction that may not be being sized out completely.

    Check your sizing die and shell holder to ensure it contacting the and slight "bump" felt at top of stroke. This sets full length sizing at the most possible. Size 5-10 cases and test in your gage. Lightly expand bell case mouth, only enough to allow bullet to enter case with out shaving. seat bullets to OAL and then crimp in a separate step. This gives better control of oal and crimp. Test again in gage.

  11. #11
    Boolit Mold Md2hunt's Avatar
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    Will do. Thank you!
    Quote Originally Posted by mold maker View Post
    Try fitting the offending round base first into the headspace gage. That will help id where the problem is and how to fix it. I learned that doing 5.56 mil brass that apparently had been fired in a very generous chamber.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I had similar issues loading the 45acp
    I finally got it just keep after it and you will get it rite
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Gtrubicon's Avatar
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    Run them through a lee factory crimp die.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Md2hunt View Post
    I don’t have a crimp die and have never used one.
    What’s the 45-45-10 form?
    Thanks
    "45-45-10", is a lube that uses ALOX(45%) - Johnsons paste wax(45%) - Mineral Spirits(10%).

    It is used as a tumble lube instead of straight ALOX by a lot of folks, including me.


    As far as not using a crimp die, I would reckon that you likely do something to crimp after you seat the boolit/bullet, and perhaps in the same die, rather than in a separate step. Or, perhaps you are meaning that you do not set any crimp when you seat in the same seat/crimp die. But then it would make me (& likely others) wonder how you get rid of the "bell" from flaring the mouth of the case after seatingim the projectile without having some sort of a "crimp" done either by a separate crimp die, or the seating/crimp die that comes with a set of dies...

    Regardless. There are many folks here helping out, so I will just sit back & read, so as not to confuse anyone with any more suggestions.

    G'Luck! to ya in your efforts!
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  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Look closely at the case mouth of a loaded round. Any built up lead right there?

    It sounds like you are only expanding until the case is close to final cartridge diameter and then seating the bullet and not crimping. You want to try expanding the case more, seat the bullet, and then using a taper crimp die to just eliminate the belling.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    The factory dies have some sort of crimp built into the seating die. That last few thousands should remove the bell created by the expander. Don't overdo it as that cartridge headspaces on the case mouth. Just enough to get the case diameter down to that of the area a bit further down from the bell. I prefer to crimp in a separate operation, even if using the seating die as I do with .44 mag and .45 Colt. For the .45 ACP I use a Lee taper crimp die. Same in .380 ACP, 9mm, .40 S&W, and 10mm.

    As for the Lee Factory Crimp Die in handgun calibers, it sized down the finished round too much. Made the cast bullet become undersize. Just my one experience. Others have had good success with it. Try the taper crimp die first is my suggestion.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gtrubicon View Post
    Run them through a lee factory crimp die.
    No offence to Gtrubicon, but forget the FCD and learn to adjust your dies and measure your components.

    What bullet are you casting? Lee makes two round nose 45 ACP bullets, a 1R and a 2R. I've read of chambering/OAL problems with the 1R and deep seating is needed.

    The only Lee die I've ever had problems with is a 45 ACP expanding/flaring die. It seems my die (don't know about others) has a very short taper for a flare and a ridge at the end of the flare. The case mouth bottomed out against the ridge and limited the flare and occasionally would ding the case mouth. Replaced it with an "M" die...

    I don't "crimp" my semi-auto ammo, I just remove the flare from the case mouth enough to pass the plunk test 100%...

    I have a Wilson case gauge, somewhere, but I gave up using it years ago and rely on the barrels of my guns and the plunk test.
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  18. #18
    Boolit Man
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    I am thinking there is good advise here.. measure.. I know.. a pain but only till you get it right.. electronic calipers cost like $15 and last forever. measure the case mouth. it should be in spec.. as was noted.. the Lee FCD will make sure it is in spec. It is really a 'fourth step' tho.. easy step but.. .one more. If your seating die gives you consistent case mouth diameters you are golden in any case.

    Also mentioned but important is.. does the bullet contact the lands of the barrel before it can seat deep enough to chamber? Again..easy to determine.. Alox coat adds diameter. if you tap a round that is chambered in the barrel for the 'plunk test' and is goes further in? probly a problem.. 45 acp seats on the case mouth.. not some part of the cast bullet.

    Doing the plunk test for ONE GUN works fine.. if they plunk? they will chamber. they may not pass the test on another similar firearm.. all factory rounds pass the plunk test. They do so because they are within specs which.. oddly enough.. barrel makers follow. You may or may not get away with more case mouth or bullet diameter. But the factory round will work. The Lee FCD duplicates this reliability. The beauty of the Lee FCD is that it is somewhat adjustable.

    The 'con' is that it can not compensate for not enough throat in your barrel. Since jacketed rounds are 'undersize' by cast standards.. throat has little to do with the equation. They will chamber almost without exception. Often you can adjust seating depth to make up for oversize bullets/shallow throats but.. if you seat too deep you raise pressures. The Lee FCD when over all length is correct will make sure that 99% or better of all reloads work.

    again.. just my opinion.. your mileage may vary.

    lazs

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master

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    /\ /\ /\ /\ What he said.
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  20. #20
    Boolit Mold Md2hunt's Avatar
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    I appreciate your time. Been loading .45 ACP so long I felt like I had to start over and learn all over. Never have used a crimp die and all of these dummy rounds I’ve loaded drop right into my barrel. I think you all have answered my questions. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by lazs View Post
    I am thinking there is good advise here.. measure.. I know.. a pain but only till you get it right.. electronic calipers cost like $15 and last forever. measure the case mouth. it should be in spec.. as was noted.. the Lee FCD will make sure it is in spec. It is really a 'fourth step' tho.. easy step but.. .one more. If your seating die gives you consistent case mouth diameters you are golden in any case.

    Also mentioned but important is.. does the bullet contact the lands of the barrel before it can seat deep enough to chamber? Again..easy to determine.. Alox coat adds diameter. if you tap a round that is chambered in the barrel for the 'plunk test' and is goes further in? probly a problem.. 45 acp seats on the case mouth.. not some part of the cast bullet.

    Doing the plunk test for ONE GUN works fine.. if they plunk? they will chamber. they may not pass the test on another similar firearm.. all factory rounds pass the plunk test. They do so because they are within specs which.. oddly enough.. barrel makers follow. You may or may not get away with more case mouth or bullet diameter. But the factory round will work. The Lee FCD duplicates this reliability. The beauty of the Lee FCD is that it is somewhat adjustable.

    The 'con' is that it can not compensate for not enough throat in your barrel. Since jacketed rounds are 'undersize' by cast standards.. throat has little to do with the equation. They will chamber almost without exception. Often you can adjust seating depth to make up for oversize bullets/shallow throats but.. if you seat too deep you raise pressures. The Lee FCD when over all length is correct will make sure that 99% or better of all reloads work.

    again.. just my opinion.. your mileage may vary.

    lazs

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