PC instead of GC ?

[Gunslinger1911]

So I have a 22 tcm (1911). NOE 42g gc boolet cast from wheel wt lubed with Carn red. Works well. Clocks around 2000 f/s.
Want to eliminate the Horn checks.
Even those little 22 copper checks add up $. I shoot the little bugger a lot !

Gonna try the WW pc'd and lubed. May try to find some lino to try also.

Think I'm spinning my wheels ?
Might, maybe work ?

[RKJ]

I don't use GC's much and PC and my accuracy is as good as I can shoot. I don't know hwat distances you're shooting but shooting PC without the GC works all right for me up to 25 yards.

[boman250]

My first post on this site, although I have been searching on here for a long time for info.

I have a 22 TCM 1911, FS. I have an NOE 37g mold and I have Powder coated them with harbor freight red. Shot them up to 2500 FPS out of my TCM rifle with no problems. Accuracy was not spectacular though.

I am thinking of trying gas checks to see if accuracy improves. As for the pistol, the non-gas checked bullets are as accurate as I am.

I am curious how you got to 2000FPS with the 42g bullet? I can only get to about 1900 with the 40g before I get stuck cases.

[Gunslinger1911]

Thanks guys,

RKJ - 25yds is about all the distance I shoot with mine too.

Boman250 - welcome to the madness that is Cast Boolets !
2000 is a little past sane - 11.2 g 296 - Not my everyday load, that's 10.8g 296 - good sane load.
Anybody, PLEASE don't try this at home, I'm a professional nut case !
Works in MY Rock 1911, with my lead alloy, my lube, etc
Worked up to this 0.1g at a time, new brass, weighed each charge, kept fingers crossed.
No stuck cases, primer not terribly ugly - well, not totally flattened.
Real rip snorter !

[rsrocket1]

GC's not only seal gases to prevent blow by, but they also provide a uniform base for when the end of the bullet exits the barrel. If your casts are perfectly round and the PC is applied uniformly, it will be as good as GC'ed. Of course you don't have perfect control of the PC'ing so it may be as good, but it can only be as good or worse that plain based PC'ed bullets. So long as the fit is decent, you will at least avoid leading. At 10 yards with a handgun, it won't matter. At 50 yards in a rifle it will still be acceptable but not guaranteed.

[sukivel]

GC's not only seal gases to prevent blow by, but they also provide a uniform base for when the end of the bullet exits the barrel. If your casts are perfectly round and the PC is applied uniformly, it will be as good as GC'ed. Of course you don't have perfect control of the PC'ing so it may be as good, but it can only be as good or worse that plain based PC'ed bullets. So long as the fit is decent, you will at least avoid leading. At 10 yards with a handgun, it won't matter. At 50 yards in a rifle it will still be acceptable but not guaranteed.

So at what rifle distances does one need to add a gc to pc‘d bullets to start helping with accuracy?


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[popper]

I tried using HiTek as a GC on some rifle boolits - results were not good. Lube was BLL, 50/50 alloy.
rifle distances does one need to add a gc Not distance but pressure/fps.

[sukivel]

I tried using HiTek as a GC on some rifle boolits - results were not good. Lube was BLL, 50/50 alloy.
rifle distances does one need to add a gc Not distance but pressure/fps.

Well, in previous posts it was stated with proper sizing and pc, one can get through rifle velocities without a gc. It was stated that using a gc would increase accuracy by giving the bullet a flatter base...


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[popper]

The OP was for PCng a GC 223 sans GC. I tried it in 30cal with no luck - but it was not PCd, just base coated. I push 30 cal to jacket fps with PB PCd. IMHO,(for 30cal) the long GC shank rivits and accuracy is lost. Never shot a 223 so I can't say.

[evoevil]

I just starting casting 7-8 months ago, I just made a bunch of 500's , going to PC the502-400 and 502-383 MP MOLDs. color code 2 types of bullets with and without gas checks, some tumbled lubed, Shake & Bake and sprayed. All will be sized with a NOE sizer just to see if there's a difference. Going to try the same thing with 44 once the pother mold shows up

[Smoke4320]

Gunslinger 1911
with that small of a bullet you will be right at what PC will take and not cause you issues .. Only your testing will tell you for sure
In 30 cal rifles I get to about 1975 before I see accuracy start to go away (no leading just decreased accuracy) in 35 cal rifle I got to about 2200 FPS before accuracy decreased .. Testing at 50, 100 and 200 yds.
Again at 25 yds you might be fine only your testing with your gun and your load will tell the tale

[rsrocket1]

So at what rifle distances does one need to add a gc to pc‘d bullets to start helping with accuracy?

When you notice the difference.
Not a smart alec remark. Each bullet is different and each gun is different.
Here's a 100 yard group with 13.3g Titegroup under a Lee C309-170-F and no GC, just a bare bullet with 2:1 Beeswax/Vaseline smeared into the lube bands and pushed through a sizer. One stinker flyer but the rest looked pretty good.



The scope was zeroed for a 2000 fps load with the same bullet CG'ed using Rx7 which actually doesn't look nearly as good.



I've shot some non-GC'ed and some GC'ed bullets at that range that look like a buckshot pattern at 100 yards.

You never know what works and doesn't work until you try it out yourself.

[Traffer]

When you guys push a 30 caliber a little and the accuracy starts to go south, do you think that the area of bearing surface has any affect? As in long bearing surface with no lube grooves will give better accuracy? I appreciate any input because I intent on swaging lead with no grooves for many calibers.

[Walter Laich]

So at what rifle distances does one need to add a gc to pc‘d bullets to start helping with accuracy?

there are too many variables for this to be answered in general

caliber
weight of bullet
type/amount of powder
length of barrle
etc.

[sukivel]

there are too many variables for this to be answered in general

caliber
weight of bullet
type/amount of powder
length of barrle
etc.

Would there be a safe generalization? Say, 100 yards?


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[popper]

Trafffer - LGs weaken the boolit. Bama doesn't use them nor do I.
Attachment 219721 308W, 2400 fps 200 yds with BDC scope crosshairs @ 100. No LG GCd.
Attachment 219722 300BO 2000 fps PB 50 yds scoped, no LG. I'm not a great shot, jacketed ones did the same size.

[boman250]

I am seriously considering a gas check maker for my TCM bullets. (Mostly to give me something more to do in the garage but also for the experiment)

I want to test them in my 22 TCM rifle. Right now, they group ok at 40 yards without a gas check at about 1270 fps. (2.3g of unique). As velocity increased, accuracy decreased.

My bullets do not have a gas check base. So, I was considering the PB check maker I have seen on this forum.

I love these kind of experiments.

[Stilly]

GC's not only seal gases to prevent blow by, but they also provide a uniform base for when the end of the bullet exits the barrel. If your casts are perfectly round and the PC is applied uniformly, it will be as good as GC'ed. Of course you don't have perfect control of the PC'ing so it may be as good, but it can only be as good or worse that plain based PC'ed bullets. So long as the fit is decent, you will at least avoid leading. At 10 yards with a handgun, it won't matter. At 50 yards in a rifle it will still be acceptable but not guaranteed.

I mainly agree, but my logic is more towards- Not perfectly round? Then after it comes out of the sizer it should be close to being perfectly round. Else it is time to get a new sizer... I DO understand that I am leaving out that the sizer will correct the roundness/shape but it could still have a lopsided boolit with regard to lead/pc ratio of a certain spot or two after being corrected. I also feel that unless your initial casting is REALLY BAD (like some of those bad molds drop that look like a retard glued the two halves together) then you should not have to worry about a grain or two or three being off in a spot here or there while shooting pistol. Rifle- Yeah that might make a difference, but not close up with pistol.

[Char-Gar]

I have been shooting lead alloy bullets with or without gas checks since 1958. I have broken the code on that long ago and can get reliable and predictable accuracy in my rifles.

When PC came along a few years back, I did not jump in, but chose to sit on the sidelines and watch. The notion of PC was to simplify cast bullet shooting, but it seems to me that rather than simplify, it has added several new layers of complexity.

[Char-Gar]

I mainly agree, but my logic is more towards- Not perfectly round? Then after it comes out of the sizer it should be close to being perfectly round. Else it is time to get a new sizer... I DO understand that I am leaving out that the sizer will correct the roundness/shape but it could still have a lopsided boolit with regard to lead/pc ratio of a certain spot or two after being corrected. I also feel that unless your initial casting is REALLY BAD (like some of those bad molds drop that look like a retard glued the two halves together) then you should not have to worry about a grain or two or three being off in a spot here or there while shooting pistol. Rifle- Yeah that might make a difference, but not close up with pistol.

As far as roundness goes, many if not most barrels are not perfectly round. Whether the cast bullets is sized or unsized, it will be the exact size of the barrel after it has traveled it's own length in the barrel.

The fit of the bullet to the throat/throats is a far more important issue.