Help Identify Lead Pipe

[red67]

Hi

I'm looking for some help identifying some lead pipes.

The thick wall pipe on the left is lead, bends with hand pressure. Is this just typical water service pipe? Is it likely pure?

The thin wall pipe on the right is some type of lead alloy, and does not bend at all with hand pressure. Anyone know the alloy composition of this type of pipe? Any chance there is zinc in this pipe?

Any additional info is appreciated. Thanks!

[MaryB]

One on the right doesn't look like lead...

[NyFirefighter357]

The left pipe is house water main pipe usually 1/2" or 3/4" depending. I still see a lot of that pipe in service in the area I work in. I've gotten about 30' of it. I don't know about the other pipe, send a piece out for testing.

[Pipefitter]

The one on the left looks like water service line, most likely as close to pure as makes no difference. If there are any joints in the line (would look like a snake that swallowed a rat) then the joints would contain a fair amount of tin. I spent a summer of my plumbing/pipefitting apprenticeship working for a contractor that did the city water line work, brought home a bunch of scrap lead at that time.

By the way, welcome to the forum and all of the madness herein.

[red67]

Thanks for all the help so far fellas!

Mystery solved for the THICK wall pipe on the left.

Now, what about the THIN wall pipe on the right? It is very stiff, and doesn't bend. I can scratch it easily with a screw driver. It must be some type of lead alloy, as the gentleman who's estate this came from was a caster, and he spent quite a bit of effort to cut this thin walled pipe up into small lengths to fit in a casting post, and he stored it all very neatly.

Here is another picture of this thin walled pipe, with a joint still attached. I've also included a picture of an old oakum plumbing joint that this gentleman collected as well.

Any additional information is appreciated!

[Dusty Bannister]

You have already received the best information on the thin walled pipe from NYFireFighter. The rest of that answer is to contact member "BNE" to verify that he still can provide this service to the members. I have sent a number of samples of unknown lead to him for the XRF scan to find out the make up. In the past he has provided this service in exchange for one pound of lead per sample scanned. I have benefited from his service and it is usually quick and easy to do. You will need to melt off some clean samples, not large ones just a dime sized sample will work if you have a clean drip. I attach the sample to a small card, put it in an individual envelope or bag and ID the suspected source so he can refer to it when he sends the PM with his findings. Send a PM for his instructions.

Who knows, this might be some of the fabled tin from commercial air conditioning units that folks often found in scrap yards. That would be stiff, scratch "silver" and would be cut into smaller pieces to add to the melt. I have never seen it so would have no way of knowing for sure. I would hate to just melt it without knowing. Dusty

[Bama]

One on right looks like it is a duplex. I found a number of pieces that were a thin bronze or copper with a lead covering on both inside and outside. Just melted off an it seemed to be pure lead.

[Dusty Bannister]

A few strokes with a file would cut through any coating and expose bronze or copper. Also, please put a known object in the photos so we can get a size reference. Thanks. Dusty

[bangerjim]

I bought, several years ago, about 90# of what the scrap yard and I thought was simple Pb pipe. 1/2” diameter and sort of stiff, all coiled up in a roll. Got it home had discovered it was pure Sn refrigeration piping they used back in the early days of “making cold stuff”. At a buck a pound, that was a nice discovery!

Your thin-wall stuff does not look like what I found, but could be? Only REAL way to know is to have it analyzed with an x-ray gun. All us broken crystal ball lookers can only guess from afar.

[Mike W1]

Without a size to go by the one on the left looks a lot like the lead air pipe we used to use on telephone air pressure risers. Inside diameter on that was a fit for air pressue gauge and was smooth on the bottom, not threaded. We soldered them into place.

[MaryB]

Right one almost looks galvanized in the next pic...

[lightman]

You could see if the one on the right is attracted to a magnet or try cutting it. A cut with a hacksaw or file should show if its copper or steel inside.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

take a file to the thin stuff. It does look to have the same oxidation as the thick Lead pipe...I'm wouldn't be surprised at all, if it was what Bama describes.

One on right looks like it is a duplex. I found a number of pieces that were a thin bronze or copper with a lead covering on both inside and outside. Just melted off an it seemed to be pure lead.

FYI: take all the proper precautions (wash hands and such) when handling that oxidized lead, you are more likely to absorb lead from handling/disturbing those oxides, than from casting.

[red67]

Thanks for all the help so far.

To answer a few questions:

For a size reference, the thick wall pipe is approximately 1/2" inside diameter and the thin wall pipe is 3/4" inside diameter. I placed a dollar bill for size reference of these samples

Magnets are not attracted to either of them.

I hack sawed the thin wall pipe in half and there was no copper or bronze inside. The pipe cut easily. I placed it next to the 1/2" lead water service pipe for reference.

And finally, thanks for the safety reminder

I have been in touch with BNE, and he is willing to scan a sample of the pipe. I'll report back what he finds.

[Dusty Bannister]

One more test to get an idea what you have in the smaller line is to get a thin metal cup and put equal sized pieces of soft lead and this thin tube in the cup. Heat with a torch until one melts. Tin melts at 450F and lead melts at 621F. Just seeing which melts first is not going to be definitive, but will certainly make it interesting to see what the scan shows it to be. That thin wall tube is a lot larger than I was expecting. It will be interesting to find out what it really is. I keep wondering if that is a sweat soldered joint we are seeing in the recent set of photos.

[dondiego]

The thin walled pipe sure looks like some lead water main pipe that I got my hands on from a city worker friend who was replacing pipelines in town. He knew I was a lead scrounger because I tell any one who will listen that I want scrap lead. You'd be surprised what shows up.

[mold maker]

Muriatic acid will confirm or reject zinc content.

[tinsnips]

One on the left is a water service line, the one on the right looks to me like a lav drain pipe . The one on the left should be about 1-1/4 diameter. Both should be pure lead, the wiped joints on these pipe should contain solder.

[RogerDat]

Hit it with a propane torch or melt it into a pot of known plain lead. Alloys will melt and flow. Lead takes more heat to melt but the "unknown" if put into plain lead that is just melted should melt fairly smoothly. Zinc won't melt at lead temps. Anything with tin will rapidly melt at molten lead temperatures.

Take a drip and send it to member BNE with a pound of lead to get it analyzed to know exact alloy.

[red67]

I just wanted to post the XRF test results to those following this thread and any members that might want to use this as a reference in the future:

Here is the composition of the thin wall pipe:

97% lead
2% antimony
1% tin

The antimony content explains the stiffness of the pipe in relation to the thinner wall, when compared to the pure lead (thick walled) pipe sample.

Thanks again to everyone for the help!