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Thread: 458 Socom or 450 Bushmaster 50 Beawulf AR 15 for a reloader/caster

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    458 Socom or 450 Bushmaster 50 Beawulf AR 15 for a reloader/caster

    After having a talk with BrassMagnet last week he made me realize I do not own a modern day sporting rifle. Well everyone knows how I feel about 223/5.56. (I am not a fan). I do have a RAR in 223 I love. Anyway I had a few pennies saved up in a can when the phone rang and a buddy said hey I am taking a trip to a gun shop far away. OK. Want to tag along? Sure do. While standing in the shop I saw a complete PSA lower for 79 bucks new. So it came home with me.

    Now I ask as a reloader and caster what round is a better fit. 458 socom or 450 bushmaster? 50 Beowulf even. Things I have to consider.

    Life of brass.
    Cost of projectile.
    Does swaged bullets work in the 458 or 450 even?
    What do you have and what do you cast and load into it? This gun will be mostly for blowing up water jugs. I might take it deer hunting but that depends on how much damage it does. I need something left to eat. I was looking for an AR 15 size rifle but not in 223.
    If I placed this in the wrong section please move it but I think its ok. Also please lets not turn this into a cal war. I think all would be great to own just need to figure out what one I will be able to shoot the most. Thanks for your input.

    I am open to other cals also as long as they do not cost thousands for an upper.
    Stop being blinded by your own ignorance.

  2. #2
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    Love the 450, and as it is almost become standardized brass isn’t to difficult to find, easy to load
    Mild to wild and though I haven’t found it to be a minute of angle rifle my upper will hold about 1.5 at 100 yards. Haven’t taken game with mine yet but it’s become very very popular in lower MI, as it fits the 1.8 inch straight walled cartridge class and I haven’t heard or seen that it’s a meat killer but does deliver the smack

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    Boolit Master
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    nagantguy do you reload for the 450? Stupid question right. Are you using cast?

    I also do not expect the 45 cal bullet to be a tac driver. Its more of a freight train. LOL
    Stop being blinded by your own ignorance.

  4. #4
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    You would be surprised about the 450. Groups hover around 1-1.5", with j-words a bit smaller. 45 pistol bullets are cheaper than 45 rifle bullets I believe. Accuracy the same to me, in all three calibers. Just different power levels.
    How about the 6.5 Grendel?

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    Boolit Master corbinace's Avatar
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    Or 30tac/Herrett

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    Boolit Buddy zardoz's Avatar
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    I have assembled my own 300AAC Blackout, and 458 SOCOM rifles. Both were attractive to me, because all my standard AR magazines work without modification. I can swap uppers and lowers between the three platforms as well. So I can mix and match magazines with varying capacities between my 5.56 AR's, and the two larger calibers.

    I like to use the 20 round magazine on the bench, because it is less awkward than the 30 rounders. The 20 round standard AR magazine will hold 7 rounds of 458 SOCOM.

    I can use the same boolits, or j-words between 308 Win, 300 Win Mag, and the 300 AAC. Then, boolits and j-words made for my 45-70 Marlin work in the SOCOM. I have a nice Ranch Dog 350 grain .458 mold that works very nicely in the SOCOM. My main thing was interchangeability.

    Brass for the SOCOM is fairly expensive, but I suspect the same applies to the other large caliber AR brass.

    That's just my preference, having looked at both the 450 Bushmaster and 50 Beowulf a lot before finally deciding on the SOCOM.
    Last edited by zardoz; 04-20-2018 at 02:07 AM. Reason: spelling, and additional info
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    I love my beo. Its accurate, brass life is great and well, its a 50! Got to be better then a 45. That said id like to pick up a 450. Between the 450 and 458 the 450 is the winner in my book. Cheaper bullets, more molds available, and its straight walled so its legal to hunt with in areas that matters. The 458 might have the edge in power but if that's a concern (and it shouldn't be because any of the three is plenty powerful) then id just step up to a 450. Also it seems that finding brass for the 450 and 50 is a bit easier then the 458. My 50 shoots moa with reineer plated solids and just a bit bigger with there hps. Id like to be able to tell you how great it is with cast but to be truthful I didn't fool much with it. I bought a couple molds and maybe shot a couple hundred through it doing load development but nothing did near as well as the reineers. Now that I do pc I think maybe his summer ill give them another try. Its not that it did terrible. I had a few 3 inch 5 shot groups at a 100 yards which is good enough for anything your going to use one for but the reineers are relatively cheap and are a lot cleaner running in an AR then lubed cast bullets are.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master RU shooter's Avatar
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    I'd go with the 450 , Big choice of 45 cal pistol bullets cast and jacketed varieties and brass is fairly common . Ballistics are way more than enough for any deer to handle if you want to use it for that . With an adjustable gas block you could load and shoot mild to wild with it .

    Tim
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockrat View Post
    How about the 6.5 Grendel?
    This round looks good but not something I am after. THanks for the suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by corbinace View Post
    Or 30tac/Herrett
    I did a Google search and did not find anything about this. I do not know what it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by zardoz View Post
    I like to use the 20 round magazine on the bench, because it is less awkward than the 30 rounders. The 20 round standard AR magazine will hold 7 rounds of 458 SOCOM.
    That's just my preference, having looked at both the 450 Bushmaster and 50 Beowulf a lot before finally deciding on the SOCOM.
    I am in NYS and have to stick to 10 rounds in a mag law. When we could have more I used to use 20s over 30s in 5.56 for the same reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    I love my beo. Its accurate, brass life is great and well, its a 50! G Now that I do pc I think maybe his summer ill give them another try. Its not that it did terrible. I had a few 3 inch 5 shot groups at a 100 yards which is good enough for anything your going to use one for but the reineers are relatively cheap and are a lot cleaner running in an AR then lubed cast bullets are.
    I think PC will work well as I have done it in the 50AE in the past.

    300 blackout is a no go for me since us NYS guys can not have Cans. I am leaning more into the big bore setups. If I can afford to get one built.

    If anyone has a good deal for an upper in any of these three cals feel free to post a link. Searching the net is not my thing and locating BB uppers is proving to be difficult.
    This is great info guys. Please keep the chat going as I have one half of a rifle at this point. Would love to hear more on brass life. We all know straight wall should last longer then high pressure bottle neck.
    Stop being blinded by your own ignorance.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy KMac's Avatar
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    I would choose the 450 of those 3. Most 458 rifle bullets wont open up at the 458's velocity, but the pistol bullets will in the 450. But if you are going to shoot cast only then the 458 would be just as good a choice. But I chose the 6.5 Grendel for myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RU shooter View Post
    I'd go with the 450 , Big choice of 45 cal pistol bullets cast and jacketed varieties and brass is fairly common . Ballistics are way more than enough for any deer to handle if you want to use it for that . With an adjustable gas block you could load and shoot mild to wild with it .

    Tim
    Mild to wild. Humm that sounds like me.

    I just found a used 50 Beowulf for sale. But I have no clue what a good price is for new or used.
    Stop being blinded by your own ignorance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outer Rondacker View Post
    Mild to wild. Humm that sounds like me.

    I just found a used 50 Beowulf for sale. But I have no clue what a good price is for new or used.
    What are the specs of the rifle and how much are they asking?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KMac View Post
    I would choose the 450 of those 3. Most 458 rifle bullets wont open up at the 458's velocity, but the pistol bullets will in the 450. But if you are going to shoot cast only then the 458 would be just as good a choice. But I chose the 6.5 Grendel for myself.
    Does not have to shoot cast. Like others I shoot a lot. I can see myself shooting more then the average person. I am told by other club members I shoot more then the entire club combined. When the 50 ae came out it cost us around 2 dollars a bullet to reload. Now I have it down to .45 cents. These three rounds have been out for a while now and I figure each can be loaded for about the same.

    Another question I have is you guys keep saying the 450 bushmaster takes pistol bullets at .452. Well my 45 pistols using J-words shoot .451. If cast .452.
    Stop being blinded by your own ignorance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KMac View Post
    What are the specs of the rifle and how much are they asking?
    $800 dollars. "Alexander Arms .50 beowulf upper, it has a 12.5in odin works mlok rail, low profile gas block, tank brake, custom etched .50 beowulf dust cover. It will also come with 32 brass casings fired once, 6 rounds of 335g HP, 6 rounds of 385g BRASS HP from AA and a factory AA 7rd mag, and a 10rd modified Hexmag. The complete upper was only used to pig hunt and only has like 60 rounds through it. BCG shows no wear and still has factory grease on it. Upper barely has any wear, though a few nicks."

    This is the ad. I also found brand new 80% complete kits for 825.00 Alexandra Arms upper Anderson lower. Like I said I have not clue what a decent price is.
    Stop being blinded by your own ignorance.

  15. #15
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    My Alex Arms 50 Beowulf upper was around $700 when Midway had them on sale.

    Just ordered a 450 Bushmaster from them for $450. I like the thumpers and will probably add a Socom to the collection but right now they seem to be pricey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lavenatti View Post

    Just ordered a 450 Bushmaster from them for $450. .
    Did this include the bolt carrier group?
    Stop being blinded by your own ignorance.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master RU shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outer Rondacker View Post

    Another question I have is you guys keep saying the 450 bushmaster takes pistol bullets at .452. Well my 45 pistols using J-words shoot .451. If cast .452.
    Yes it shoots the same bullets you would use in your 45acp pistol .451 for jacketed ,.452 cast is pretty much the norm . You would size or buy your cast bullets at whatever size would fit your barrel best . Who know it may shoot best with .454 dia cast bullets .that depend on the barrel /throat though . They also make some heavy weight jacketed bullets designed for the other 45 cal revolvers 45 colt 454 est. most are probably .451-.452 they will also work fine.

    Tim
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

  18. #18
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    I use the .451 bullets in my 450 B. I have also used 45 cal bullets designed for muzzloaders, the kind that fit in a sabot. Figure the velocities they are designed for in a muzzleloader are similar to that of the 450B. Can you use 20 rnd 5.56 mags and just mark them for use in 450B only and mark the capacity on the mag? I think I remember someone offering mags as such.
    The only drawback to my 450B as compared to my 458 or 50, is that the barrel should have been a bit bigger in diameter because the big hole in the middle takes off alot of metal and makes the gun a bit light for my tastes. Have thought about having X-caliber make me another barrel to add a bit of weight.
    Too bad 50 ae uppers aren't still available, that might work for you too

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for clearing that up guys. (451-452) I can use other mags as long as the base plate is marked the cal its in. Other wise they say it holds to many 5.56 even if the upper is in a different cal. The item not the use of it is outlawed. Anyway.

    The 50 AE is headed for Washington state. Years ago my buddy and I went halves on it and he now lives in Tacoma. Since its on the ban list here. So all the 50 AE stuff will be shipped out with it. Going to go take a look at midway right now to see the price differences on the three uppers.
    Stop being blinded by your own ignorance.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outer Rondacker View Post
    nagantguy do you reload for the 450? Stupid question right. Are you using cast?

    I also do not expect the 45 cal bullet to be a tac driver. Its more of a freight train. LOL
    Yes I do and a pc’d 235 grain lee round nose is plenty accurate up to the warm side of mild
    Loads. I also have had great luck with the bargain priced Rainer plated bullets, the Hornady flex tip is also holding about 1.5-2 “ at 100 in full house loads. And some have trouble with standard magazines freezing the big 450, from magpul and colt 20 rounders I haven’t had to much trouble.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check