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Thread: Buying files, making file handles

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Back in the late 70's or early 80's the local old school hardware store went out of business. He wanted to retire and no one could afford to buy it, he had an amazing amount of goods and a lot of high quality tools. He put everything on sale including the Black Diamond files. There were all kinds and shapes, some you just don't see anymore. I bought all I could afford and still have a few new ones wrapped up in an oily cloth.

    Mrs. Carson, the owners wife would take a sheet of brown paper off the roll at the end of the counter and wrap each one up. When I thanked her for that she said no one knew the difference anymore but that years ago if she had let the files rub each other the customer would have left them on the counter.

    Mr. Carson was so tight he squeaked when he walked, but if he owed you a penny you got it and if you owed him one he wanted it. I can live with that.

    Dave

  2. #22
    Boolit Buddy
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    Just my 2 cents I've heard of the golf ball trick. I keep a stick of 3/4 or 1" hardwood dowel on hand. If I need a handle I cut off a 3 or 4" piece drill a hole and wedge it on . If I like it a little epoxy makes it permanent.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    back in the 80's I worked for a gov. contractor. they would sign out a file swipe the al. armor plate choke it up it would go right in the trash I would fish them out along with the taps. still using those files and taps today.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10-x View Post
    Using soap stone and a file card will allow ones files to last longer, easy to do.
    Soapstone is better than chalk IMO but file cards should be outlawed, I would never subject my files to one of those stikin things!!! First off they don't work very well, they do a fair job of removing the bigger clogs from the teeth that cause gouges but those wires can not reach to the bottoms of the file's teeth and so leave all kinds of junk. That's not the big problem however, they will dull your files! those wires are harder than the file teeth, they have to be, so even when brushed across the teeth they can ruin them. A MUCH better tool to clean a file is simply a piece of flat hardwood pushed across the teeth or for really stuck clogs a flattened brass cartridge case works very good and neither the brass or the wood will harm file teeth.


    A little test I have used to demonstrate just how bad file cards are is to have a person take a dirty file and "clean" it with a file card, use a new one and give it your best shot, then after the file has been thoroughly "cleaned" follow up by going across those file teeth again with a piece of hardwood or that flattened brass case. The amount of gunk that a file card/brush leaves is astounding and more than enough to cause problems, not to mention the damage those things can do to the edges of the teeth. The tips of the wires on a file card simply can't reach to the bottoms of the "valley" between the file's teeth (on finer files they barely go between them at all!) and so leave all kinds of junk in there. The wood or brass will instantly form to the shape of the teeth of the file being cleaned and will clean all the way to the bottoms of the teeth. Another nice thing about the wood and scrap brass casings is that they are free and easy to find or replace!
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  5. #25
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    My father, bless his soul left me a box of very intricate wood working hand tools and all of his files. He would make his own shaper knives for the job at hand if he had to. These are mostly from the old country. I am glad to know of Boggs!!
    Look twice, shoot once.

  6. #26
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    I've never heard of sharpening files.
    I have a fist full of old USA made files that my Dad had...most are dull.
    I have a few new-ish import files that I use for general handy-work.
    After reading this thread, I'm sending Boggs a email...and hope to get the old files sharpened up.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  7. #27
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    I've never heard of sharpening files.
    I have a fist full of old USA made files that my Dad had...most are dull.
    I have a few new-ish import files that I use for general handy-work.
    After reading this thread, I'm sending Boggs a email...and hope to get the old files sharpened up.
    A well known trick to refresh a mildly dull file is to soak it in acid but I have found the common method of using dilute Sulfuric acid to be entirely too harsh and while it does work it erodes the teeth rapidly. I have also seen Hydrochloric (AKA Muriatic) acid recommended but it's much worse for a file than Sulfuric acid because in addition to rapid erosion of the teeth it also makes the teeth very brittle and prone to chipping and even breaking. Phosphoric acid, the same stuff in colas and other soft drinks, works well too and will not harm a file since the action is very mild and it won't cause Hydrogen embtittlement like some of the harsher chemicals. This stuff is sold as a rust remover/dissolver at places like Lowes, Home Depot, most hardware stores and even at auto parts stores under brand names such as Ospho, Must-For-Rust, etc just make sure it's Phosphoric acid. I had serious doubts about this until I tried it and it is in fact a pretty amazing process for refreshing (I hesitate to say sharpening) what I would refer to as "utility" files, I still send my more expensive specialty files to Boggs for their abrasion process although I have freshened up a couple of the rifflers with the rust remover solution.

    This won't do much for a heavily dulled abused file, Bogg's process can save many of even those however, but for a file that is just normally dull or maybe has been used on a metal that was too hard it has to be tried to be believed! Take the Phosphoric acid based rust remover (this stuff is so mild you don't even need gloves) and pour it into a bottle or a pan that the file will fit into so that it can be submerged completely over the cutting surface, leave it for an hour to an hour and half then remove it, rinse with cold clear water, dry and oil that's all there is to it. The first time I did this I was amazed at the difference it made, I could easily feel the difference just running my fingers along the file teeth but the real proof came when I tried it on a piece of steel, it cut better than new if anything! Like I said it won't revive a ruined file but one that has simply gotten to dull to cut very good will undergo an amazing transformation and that mild Phosphoric acid will not harm it in the least.
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  8. #28
    Boolit Master Clark's Avatar
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    I know I have put rusty wood screws in a brine of salt and vinegar and boiled them in the microwave. The rust falls off and the threads are sharp like a knife.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark View Post
    I know I have put rusty wood screws in a brine of salt and vinegar and boiled them in the microwave. The rust falls off and the threads are sharp like a knife.
    Yep, I have heard of vinegar being used in place of acid but then vinegar is quite acidic (Acetic acid) and I suspect the microwave heating sped up the process. I have never used vinegar but unless I am mistaken I think when used on files it needs to soak for a couple of days or more, maybe longer but I am not sure on that part. The Phosphoric acid needs a minimum of an hour for fine tooth files and longer for coarse ones, I always leave mine longer than an hour but a person should check on them at that point. Leaving them for a lot longer doesn't seem to do much if any harm as I once left a couple of Nicholson 8" flat files in the solution for three days after forgetting about them, they just had a thicker coating of the normal Phosphate build-up on them but that rinsed right off. They were very sharp afterwords but I suspect it reduced the number of times the procedure can be done due to excessive metal loss but then I don't know that to be a fact, it could be that the Phosphate coating kept the teeth from eroding beyond a certain point but in any case I didn't see any damage and they were indeed quite sharp.

    BTW, after treating them in the rust remover solution (the Phosphoric acid) they first come out of the solution with a soft grey-ish/black coating that rinses off and leaves the surface of the file a lot darker than they normally look but that is not harmful. In fact it is the rust inhibiting Phosphate surface that is supposed to add protection to the bare metal that has been treated, it doesn't rust proof the metal by any means but along with a light oil film it will make the files much more rust resistant than files with oil alone.

    It's hard for me to wrap my mind around just how the dickens this actually works, it really seems to me that it should BLUNT the edges of the teeth rather than sharpen them. Obviously that's wrong as I have turned some pretty dull files into very useful tools using this method, I am not suggesting it's as good as the Boggs abrasive method but it's cheap and easy and for a file that is simply dull from normal use it works so well I don't see how they could be any sharper. No matter how dull they may be it's definitely worth doing because even really dull files will most likely benefit and files that are in good condition other than being dull will come out cutting like new or even better!
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  10. #30
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    I came across 4 new file handles at a garage sale for very little money. But, I also make my own handles from scrap hardwood/ dowels. I like to turn down the front end so that a short piece of EMT or copper pipe is a force fit on it. This helps prevent the handle from splitting when putting downward pressure on the file. You can also epoxy the tubing on the wood.
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  11. #31
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    I use file handles, they are about like the wood handle on a mold. Some the ferrule tightens to squeeze down on the tang. My biggest problem is storing files so they don't get banged together. I put them on a piece of cardboard but every so often I'll see the cabinet has been moved enough that some files are over other files. And I can hear my dads gentle admonishment in one ear and my shop teachers bellow in the other. Between the two I certainly know better.

    Boggs sounds like a heck of an idea. Was draw filing some wood to fit recently and realized that file just didn't cut it like it used to. Was more like wearing down the wood than shaving it off. These are all old files from decades ago. Doubt they were high end but they held up well for a long time. Sharpening at least some would be great.

    I recently fixed a mold that had a small burr at a mold pin hole that didn't allow mold to close tight. I don't use those small files often but man I was glad I had them. Cheap Chinese set from 20 years ago, not worth sharpening and haven't seen a lot of use but every so often some small tight work comes up.

    When I use a file for some reason I always have fond memories of the people that taught me how to use one. Kept me from embarrassing myself in the tool room as a young man that is for sure.
    Last edited by RogerDat; 04-19-2018 at 06:56 PM.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

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  12. #32
    Boolit Master BigEyeBob's Avatar
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    I have a large collection of files .I started collecting them when I started my apprenticeship as a Toolmaker in 1970 . Im still using them . I have grobert needle files ,Stubbs needle files ,rifflers etc . The largers files I have resharpened many times using cleaning vinegar (made from molasses ,rather than wine grapes) its a bit more aggressive .It really makes them nice to use .I bought a set of metal checkering files from a company in the US ,they cost me a small fortune ,IIRC they are Grobert .I use them for checkering bolt knobs and the finer ones for matting of sight bases and ribs .They range from 20lpi to 75lpi .I did a few machining jobs for a bloke who does a lot of wood turning and in exchange for the work I did he turned up a big swag of file handles in different sizes from Aussie hard wood ,they are excellent and will out last me .I have a small machine shop at home and spend all my time making stuff , and work on my own guns ,making tooling for my lathes and mill and swage dies and other firearm related projects .Jewellers tool suppliers usually have a good selection of specialty files ,but they are not cheap . I reckon ,the files would be the most used tools in my workshop .

  13. #33
    Boolit Bub
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    I just cut sections of old wooden mop handles, drill and epoxy and you're good to go.

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy Reverend Recoil's Avatar
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    The file is a unique tool. It is the only tool that can reproduce itself. With a file you can cut a chisel. With the chisel you can cut another file.
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  15. #35
    Boolit Buddy 55fairlane's Avatar
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    Old time tool & die maker here.....files are a valuable tool to us , proper care and the will last a lifetime, most all mine wear custom made to fit my hands, handles.

    You really want to learn to use a file? Do like I had to do,when I was serving my aprentership...file a block of so if gray iron in to a cube....all sides, true-flat-& square........then go on to scrape it to perfect....

    Aaron

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldred View Post
    A well known trick to refresh a mildly dull file is to soak it in acid but I have found the common method of using dilute Sulfuric acid to be entirely too harsh and while it does work it erodes the teeth rapidly. I have also seen Hydrochloric (AKA Muriatic) acid recommended but it's much worse for a file than Sulfuric acid because in addition to rapid erosion of the teeth it also makes the teeth very brittle and prone to chipping and even breaking. Phosphoric acid, the same stuff in colas and other soft drinks, works well too and will not harm a file since the action is very mild and it won't cause Hydrogen embtittlement like some of the harsher chemicals. This stuff is sold as a rust remover/dissolver at places like Lowes, Home Depot, most hardware stores and even at auto parts stores under brand names such as Ospho, Must-For-Rust, etc just make sure it's Phosphoric acid. I had serious doubts about this until I tried it and it is in fact a pretty amazing process for refreshing (I hesitate to say sharpening) what I would refer to as "utility" files, I still send my more expensive specialty files to Boggs for their abrasion process although I have freshened up a couple of the rifflers with the rust remover solution.

    This won't do much for a heavily dulled abused file, Bogg's process can save many of even those however, but for a file that is just normally dull or maybe has been used on a metal that was too hard it has to be tried to be believed! Take the Phosphoric acid based rust remover (this stuff is so mild you don't even need gloves) and pour it into a bottle or a pan that the file will fit into so that it can be submerged completely over the cutting surface, leave it for an hour to an hour and half then remove it, rinse with cold clear water, dry and oil that's all there is to it. The first time I did this I was amazed at the difference it made, I could easily feel the difference just running my fingers along the file teeth but the real proof came when I tried it on a piece of steel, it cut better than new if anything! Like I said it won't revive a ruined file but one that has simply gotten to dull to cut very good will undergo an amazing transformation and that mild Phosphoric acid will not harm it in the least.
    I will give this Phosphoric acid "trick" a try...I have a second fist full of files (imported) that I won't be sending to Boggs...I'll try it on a couple of those. But honestly, for my usage, if Boggs does what everyone says they can do, to my fistfull of old USA files, I should have a lifetime supply of sharp files.

    Also, I use old busted garden tool handles (shovels/forks/rakes) for File handles...I seem to have a plentiful supply of those, LOL.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  17. #37
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    I always pick up old files from garage sales thinking if nothing else I’ll make knives out of them. Never knew that you could sharpen them!


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  18. #38
    Boolit Master BigEyeBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 55fairlane View Post
    Old time tool & die maker here.....files are a valuable tool to us , proper care and the will last a lifetime, most all mine wear custom made to fit my hands, handles.

    You really want to learn to use a file? Do like I had to do,when I was serving my aprentership...file a block of so if gray iron in to a cube....all sides, true-flat-& square........then go on to scrape it to perfect....

    Aaron
    Yes had the same training "aid' I still have the cube after all these years .After filing the cube we had to make a square plate ,about 7" square x3/4" thick ,cut a square hole in its center for the cube to pass through with no mo
    re than .002" clearance . An exercise in chain drilling and more filing .I remember that my hands were as soft as butter straight from school ,the filing raised blisters on blisters .We were allowed to use the metal shaper to machine the outer edges of the plate .First machine tool I used .

  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy pcolapaddler's Avatar
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    What is the soapstone used for?

    All I ever saw it used for was marking metal for cutting, etc.

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  20. #40
    Boolit Buddy 55fairlane's Avatar
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    Soapstone or chalk is used to keep the file teeth form pinning (or loading up) as you file, so of metals like copper,aluminium can load the file up, so the soapstone, allows the chip (filing) to not stick to the file and fall away from the cutting edge and the tool

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BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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