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Thread: annealing

  1. #1
    Boolit Master D Crockett's Avatar
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    annealing

    ok I am a dummy I know very little about annealing. I built a oven to anneal in. it works I think. So here is my question. how do you know when your brass is annealed ????all help will be welcome thank you D Crockett

  2. #2
    Boolit Bub
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    Depends what you’re annealing. Have you read the annealing sticky? (Simple question, don’t hate me)


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  3. #3
    Boolit Master D Crockett's Avatar
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    HtNRun I guess I should of said that I am doing 22lr brass to make 223's with. I made a steel box with bbq burners in the bottom hooked up to propane when the pan was out of it I got the temp to 800 deg. but when I put the pan of brass in I could not get the temp to 800 deg. again. I even went to harbor freight and bought a inferred thermometer but according to it I was not reaching 800 deg. now I am at a loss as to what to do. I let the brass cool and I still can not pinch the mouth of the case close I need some help please D Crockett

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Maybe too much mass (i.e. too much brass) and you didn't wait long enough for it to "soak" and get up to temp.
    if its wet it will take a lot longer to get up to temp.

    Also inexpensive IR thermometers are notoriously inaccurate.

  5. #5
    Boolit Bub
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    I have used the oven in self cleaning mode to great success, but since getting a new oven, the Mrs put a quick end to that.

    I’ve moved to using a dedicated lee 10# lead pot that’s never seen lead. At setting 4 my analog thermometer is at 800. Much higher and they start sticking together, which I interpret as they are starting to melt together.

    For me a good anneal turns out quite scaled and spotty with black on most, some will be almost silver-ish. About 15 minutes at that setting and that pot full is done. Tedious if your doing a big quantity, but effective for me. I usually do around 1000/1500 per session.

    If they aren’t pinching easily, you didn’t get them hot enough, OR hot enough for long enough.

    Don’t get discouraged, it’ll click sooner or later. I hope this helps and gives a little insight.


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  6. #6
    Boolit Master D Crockett's Avatar
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    HtNRun I do not get Discouraged I just keep at it till I got the results that I want I asked the wife if I could do it in the oven and the answer was ---- NO so this is a learning experience that I have to figure out how to do out side the house I read in the sticky that someone used a cast iron frying pan with a lid on a turkey fryer to anneal on I think that is my next thing I will try thank you for all your help D Crockett

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    If you wrap them air tight in Al. foil they will not scale. As I dish to bond cores at the same time, (skipping core seat step) I can't wrap mine. Have to hold them vertical in an expanded metal rack.
    QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES?

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdfoxinc View Post
    If you wrap them air tight in Al. foil they will not scale. As I dish to bond cores at the same time, (skipping core seat step) I can't wrap mine. Have to hold them vertical in an expanded metal rack.
    I have yet to anneal for swaging, but I like the idea of bonding the cores at the same time AND avoiding scale. I’m thinking of using a lead pot “filled” with argon and a piece of plate AL on top to minimize gas movement. Anyone tried it?

  9. #9
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    Oxygen is what causes scale. Anything from CO2 to Nitrogen to work. No need to waste rare earth gases in the experiment. When I was fooling around with this I did use an AL plate and drilled it for a nipple that I hooked to the tank. I then drilled another hole to allow the gas to vent. I turned on the tank just enough to get a purging effect and it worked great. No scale.

    Something that works better, core melted into the jacket or not is once it is out of the oven, use some citric acid and SS pins. It will lighten the bullet up .5 grain as the pins do remove some material, but they come out brilliant and clean ready to be seated. It's so much easier and less hassle. Plus, a cup of pins is all you need for even a pretty big batch of bullets (several hundred)
    Zbench

  10. #10
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    I just throw them into a ladle style lead pot, cover with tin foil and let them cook for 10 minutes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D Crockett View Post
    HtNRun I asked the wife if I could do it in the oven and the answer was ---- NO
    Forever single. Forever free. I decided the other day that I wanted a machine gun. It will take 5 years to get the 25,000$ together. I didnt ask. I didnt get told no.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    If you have a glass to stove try setting them rim down, crank the burner up to high and watch them turn color.
    Worked swell on gas checks. Push them off with a spatula when done.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zbench View Post
    Oxygen is what causes scale. Anything from CO2 to Nitrogen to work. No need to waste rare earth gases in the experiment. When I was fooling around with this I did use an AL plate and drilled it for a nipple that I hooked to the tank. I then drilled another hole to allow the gas to vent. I turned on the tank just enough to get a purging effect and it worked great. No scale.

    Something that works better, core melted into the jacket or not is once it is out of the oven, use some citric acid and SS pins. It will lighten the bullet up .5 grain as the pins do remove some material, but they come out brilliant and clean ready to be seated. It's so much easier and less hassle. Plus, a cup of pins is all you need for even a pretty big batch of bullets (several hundred)

    Great points, was stuck on it only because I have a tank in the garage.

  14. #14
    In Remembrance

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    When I was annealing brass in a Lee 20 pound dipping pot, I quickly realized that ONLY the bottom 1/3 of the pot gets hot. Normally, when melting lead, that's the way you would want it to work. However, the pot I was using was NEW, and had never seen lead.

    So, the reality was that I was limited to how much brass I could put in the pot for annealing. Specifically, like you, the .22 LR brass cases.

    I could ONLY fill the bottom 1/3 of the pot with cases. Couple of handfuls at a time. I'd cover the pot with a 1/8" steel plate to keep the heat in. I would put the pot on full high position, and wait until everything inside the pot was glowing orange. That's 800+ degrees, and full annealed. I would dump the brass from the pot, into a bucket of water to cool. That doesn't affect the annealed condition at all. Rinse and repeat, as they say. I had done tens of thousands of brass cases (.22 LR) that way, and had burned out the heating coil. Lee charges about $15 for a new coil, and they are easy to replace.

    I now do all of my annealing with a commercial annealing furnace, one made for the jewelry craft. I can do a large basket of brass that way (SS basket) in about 1/2 hour, more than enough to keep me busy for a while swaging. There's no getting around the scale. You still have to remove the INSIDE burned powder residue anyways. So, I use SS pin tumbler to handle that task.


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    Yep. Stainless Steel wet media with Dawn and Lemi-Shine is all you need.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master D Crockett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackoutBuilder View Post
    Yep. Stainless Steel wet media with Dawn and Lemi-Shine is all you need.
    that part I have my home made tumbler I made out of a paper folder I got out of a print shop made a great tumbler out of it D Crockett

  17. #17
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    If you can squish the mouth of 22lr brass between your fingers then it has been annealed plenty. You will also notice it turns a slight silver color. Don't over anneal for too long.

    When forming bullets you will be able to tell they have not annealed enough if the tip of the jacket folds over on it's self.

    somewhere here I have a "common problems" thread on making 22 cal bullets.

    Swage on!

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  18. #18
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    Don't forget to check the annealing sticky too.
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  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    If the annealing oven you made gets to 800 degrees empty, it will get to 800 degrees loaded with brass. It just takes longer. All the brass plus everything else inside the oven has to reach 800 degrees.

  20. #20
    In Remembrance - Super Moderator & Official Cast Boolits Sketch Artist

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    I used a SS colander on my turkey burner turned up high, I keep flipping the brass around every time I see them turn red. I do this until they all are about red then dump them into a 5 gal bucket with water and critic acid by the time I dump the 4 or 5th batch the water is heating up and they are turning back nice and shiny on contact. I rinse them and dump them on a towel out in the sunshine until dry. Not the most tech way of doing it but they are soft and I can do a large batch in a short time.
    Reloading to save money I am sure the saving is going to start soon

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