Inline FabricationStainLess Steel MediaRotoMetals2Graf & Sons
ADvertise hereTitan ReloadingLee PrecisionMidSouth Shooters Supply

Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Heat treating question

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    53

    Heat treating question

    OK, so for various reasons, I'm looking for an ultra hard cast boolit for my 454. Aiming to get around bhn of 30.

    Currently, while casting, I drop into ice water, size, then bake for 45 minutes at 455, 10 degrees below slump temp, then drop into ice water, again, right out of the oven.

    From my understanding, the quicker, and colder you can get the boolit, the harder it will be.

    My question. If I put about a quarter cup of picking salt in my 5 gallon bucket of ice, I'm pretty sure I could get the water temp to roughly 14 degrees F (-10 C)

    Would that additional temp help get a harder boolit? And the big, kicker, would the ions in the water screw with the lead?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Yodogsandman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,890
    I wouldn't consider the BHN gain (if any) worth putting any salt in my barrels. If you just have to, use an anti-freeze solution.
    A deplorable that votes!

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Rcmaveric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    558
    When you drop from the mold into the water. Then put back into the oven. You just annealed the bullets. You can skip that step.

    You are right. Also a mount of time backed can affect end BHN. Take a look at the heat treating article at LASSC. It compares time to water temp quench. 30 maybe attainable with the right alloy. I have no experince, try it and see what happens.

    No experience with thay cartridge so i can not recimmend a BHN.

    Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  4. #4

  5. #5
    Moderator



    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    10,142
    14 F
    That sounds like a great experiment. I hope you keep good notes and report them here, I've love to know the results.

    I just used cold tap water (about 55-58) and got 94-3-3 to 24-27 BHN
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...671-Heat-treat

  6. #6
    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    7,320
    Add 2% Cu to 4% Sb, water drop in ice water and you get ~36 BHN. Size as soon as you can after W.D. About the same as SuperHard alloy.
    Whatever!

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    53
    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    Add 2% Cu to 4% Sb, water drop in ice water and you get ~36 BHN. Size as soon as you can after W.D. About the same as SuperHard alloy.
    So an alloy of 2 percent copper, 4 percent antimony, if my chemistry memory is correct, 94 percent pure, soft lead? Or two percent copper for every 4 percent antimony?

    My current alloy is wheel weights, so I could add 2 percent copper, and get a bhn of 36? Would the copper help reduce brittleness? Would copper pipe or wire work?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    over the hill, out in the woods and far away
    Posts
    5,523
    No benefit to using ice water vs. ordinary cold tap water.
    Some benefit to cold soaking in freezer after removal from the water quench.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 04-17-2018 at 06:24 PM.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  9. #9
    Moderator



    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    10,142
    Quote Originally Posted by nhyrum View Post
    So an alloy of 2 percent copper, 4 percent antimony, if my chemistry memory is correct, 94 percent pure, soft lead? Or two percent copper for every 4 percent antimony?

    My current alloy is wheel weights, so I could add 2 percent copper, and get a bhn of 36? Would the copper help reduce brittleness? Would copper pipe or wire work?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...SO4&highlight=

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    53
    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    Perfect. Finally, a use for my soft lead. I have been debating about just tossing all the stick on weights I get. But, I'm going to start casting for 9mm soon too, so that will go through it quick

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  11. #11
    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    7,320
    alloy of 2 percent copper, 4 percent antimony, if my chemistry memory is correct, 94 percent pure, soft lead Yup but size as soon as dry from WD. I add a known amount of tin or zinc, add copper sulfate for the Cu - it replaces the Sn or Zn. You could go to 4% but Sb MUST be 2x the Cu. They are NOT brittle. 2% casts fine for my 30 cal. rifle.
    Whatever!

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    53
    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    alloy of 2 percent copper, 4 percent antimony, if my chemistry memory is correct, 94 percent pure, soft lead Yup but size as soon as dry from WD. I add a known amount of tin or zinc, add copper sulfate for the Cu - it replaces the Sn or Zn. You could go to 4% but Sb MUST be 2x the Cu. They are NOT brittle. 2% casts fine for my 30 cal. rifle.
    In the post he also mentions adding 1/4 of a penny /lb. I know they're mostly zinc, but would the copper melt in and in the correct proportion?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    Yodogsandman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,890
    Skip water dropping from the mold, oven heat treating for an hour in the oven is sufficient, before quenching. The faster the bullets drop in temperature the better. So quench quickly.

    I use COWW and add 1% pewter. Food service grade pewter has a small percentage of copper (4-6%). Oven heated for an hour at 450*F and quickly quenched in ice cold water yields results at 30 BHN after 5 days of age hardening.

    If you think you need more than 30BHN, you might look for other minor refinements for improvements.
    A deplorable that votes!

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    53
    Quote Originally Posted by Yodogsandman View Post
    Skip water dropping from the mold, oven heat treating for an hour in the oven is sufficient, before quenching. The faster the bullets drop in temperature the better. So quench quickly.

    I use COWW and add 1% pewter. Food service grade pewter has a small percentage of copper (4-6%). Oven heated for an hour at 450*F and quickly quenched in ice cold water yields results at 30 BHN after 5 days of age hardening.

    If you think you need more than 30BHN, you might look for other minor refinements for improvements.
    I just don't know what else to do with the bullets! I'm worried if I drop them on a pile of other bullets, they'll get all dinged up.

    If I need much harder than 30bhn, I got a copper solid I can use, but it can't get pushed as fast because it's bigger, being less dense copper and not lead. Recovered one I shot at a steel plate. Still weighs 300 grains, and only has a slight ding

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
    Yodogsandman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,890
    I dump my boolits onto a folded, old bath towel and roll them forward after each cast either with the sprue whacker stick or just lifting the front of the towel. They never get dropped on each other.

    What problem are you experiencing that you need such a super hard bullet?
    A deplorable that votes!

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    53
    Quote Originally Posted by Yodogsandman View Post

    What problem are you experiencing that you need such a super hard bullet?
    Mainly bear. That's really the whole purpose.

    Just wanna make sure it gets through what it needs to to get to the important stuff that will stop it

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  17. #17
    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    7,320
    Extremely small amount of copper in a penny. You must break them up before putting in pot for them to melt easily. Zn WW are easier to use.
    Whatever!

  18. #18
    Boolit Master RED BEAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    central va
    Posts
    255
    Never got to 30 gun but I've ice
    water dropped wheel weights with extra 1% tin are coming out at 26 - 28 bhn for me. Just make sure there are no stick on in the mix.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    53
    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    Extremely small amount of copper in a penny. You must break them up before putting in pot for them to melt easily. Zn WW are easier to use.
    Will the copper melt?

    Also, how much zep per lb of lead for 2%? You say you added 2 tablespoons to 5 lbs lead, but it was soft?

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check