Nose pour molds?

[slugflinger]

Anyone here using any of the nose pour molds, and if so, how are they working for you? Been thinking of trying one of these molds, but thought I'd see if anyone here has had any good experience with them.

[Outer Rondacker]

Slugflinger welcome to the forum. I have only used one. It was a single shot and it worked fine. Others will jump in here soon. I found key was keeping the mold hot to get good flow. It has been a while sorry I could not help you more. Others will.

[country gent]

I converted a Lyman 535 grn postel 45caliber mould to nose pour. I used it a few years as the base pour in my sharps and a rolling block in 45-70 and in my Hepburn in 45-90. It did good as the base pour. After I converted it it base and bands appeared sharper and more well defined. and it does seem to shoot better than before. I did end up with a small flat of around 1/8" on the nose not the full radius as before.
My Brooks PP adjustable 442 mould is also a nose pour and cast very good its a easy to use mould that drops bullets well and has a very nice finished bullet. Again the cup base and edge is very well defined and sharp.
I believe one reason for this is the lead is staying molten longer as more hot comes into the mould on top of it. The pressure fill effect is more pronounced possibly. I also believe the venting and off gassing of the mould is better as the smaller nose ogive gives less to be removed.
The base of the bullet is more important to accuracy than the nose is. a fixed base in the mould rather than a swinging plate should be more accurate as to squareness The sharp corners ( My postels corners look like you could shave with them) also promote accuracy.
Most nose pour moulds come from upper end or custom makers so quality is there from the start more so than the production makers. I believe a base pour mould to be a good investment. Some moulds are nose pour due to hollow bases or cup bases. The other plus in my mind is it moves the sprue to the nose and off of the base

[Bent Ramrod]

I have several Hochs, a couple of Red River Ricks, a couple Eagans, a couple I made myself and an Ideal that somebody had started converting from base to nose pour, that I finished.

They all work well. I'm not a good enough shot to determine whether a mirror-flat base makes for a more accurate boolit than one with a sprue cut mark in the center.

The Hoch types with the connected base plate and sprue cutter take longer to heat up and you need to watch your metal and heat a little more carefully than with plain moulds, as the bottom plate can smear lead, or gall with a bit of dirt just as easily as the sprue plate top can, and it's harder to see while casting. The Meehanite they are made of might take a couple casting sessions to season fully. Until then, your "keepers" will be some fraction of the total cast. After the break-in, though, they cast as well as any iron or steel mould.

The adjustable types only have the sprue plate to watch, but they do take longer to heat up and you need to be a little more careful closing the blocks around the adjustable base plate.

The Eagans are like a regular boolit mould, only the cavity is upside down, so they are closest to a normal mould in use.

And, of course, all of them are more expensive than the standard types, and may require special handles or modifications of standard ones. But they can be made to exactly the size and design you want, so sometimes they are worth it.

[stubshaft]

I've used and owned a number of Hoch molds. They work great, I've never had any issues with them.

[slugflinger]

Thanks for the answers so far guys! I myself have noticed, after sorting bullets visually, that perhaps 90+ percent of culls have their imperfections on the base, and 99 % of those culls have perfectly formed noses. ( This with commercially cast bullets) I have also experimented with rounds loaded with perfect looking bases vs. imperfect bases, that are otherwise identical. The perfectly formed bullets have always out grouped the imperfect, usually by a huge margin. I have yet to cast my first bullets, but am currently amassing the equipment needed to cast my own. Any other thoughts on this subject will be greatly appreciated.

[country gent]

WHat calibers weights are you planning on casting? This info helps a lot in offering advice. Small light bullets cast and moulds heat up a little different from big heavy bullets moulds do.

[slugflinger]

Initially 38 Spl., 45 Auto & 45 Colt. Then 357 Max., 7mm-08, 22 hornet, 223/5.56,9mm,9 mak, and on and on!

[Harter66]

WHat calibers weights are you planning on casting? This info helps a lot in offering advice. Small light bullets cast and moulds heat up a little different from big heavy bullets moulds do.

There's a truth I've not been able to word !

I've had several nose pour 45s and I'm pleased with them . The brass mould has had a fitful learning curve but has been as good a mould and as easy to cast as any base pour moulds . That includes as both a plain base and HB .

With all of the amassed knowledge of the last dozen yr it would seem logical that a nose pour would be a more accurate design , but , it also has by necessity a flat point . Given that those that desire energy transfer over penetration prefer a flat point , like myself it is a non-issue . It does rob BC points and it comes in typically more expensive moulds . Like all tools the real question is , " is the cost worth the return" . Nose pour moulds land solidly in the maybe colum .
Is it a design the is going to work for you ?
Is it a design that will run enough bullets for your needs ?
Is it a unique situation of both of the above and/or.......
Is it a good value for the first 2 or a bargain for the 3rd .
Is it just a great buy ?
Last but not least do you just want that mould ?

If any 2 of the 5 is yes do it .

Don't buy a mould that you want to shoot a bunch if it's a single , unless that's the only way it's available .
Don't buy a mould for volume that you want to shoot a few for best results .
Don't buy one that is gold plated platnum just because it is what it is , if it won't work or doesn't have a a good record of success for your use . If you do you might be stuck with it or never get even close to getting your money out ......

Says the guy that took a chance on a rust bucket H&G and bought a Cramer mould because it was a Cramer mould in 30 cal ....... But I really needed another 150-160 30cal mould because who walks away from a $20 iron 2C that looks like it fell off the mill yesterday ?

[country gent]

How are you thinking of casting? Bottom pour pot. ladle pour. Large runs of several hours or short runs of a hundred or so. What lubes are you considering. a lube sizer. pan lube. tumble lube.

A simple set up would be a coleman stove cast iron or steel pot. and a ladle, along with the mould or moulds. 38spl could be tumble lubed with lee liquid alox and ran thru a push thru lee sizer die. The next step would be a bottom pour pot Lee, Lyman, RCBS. This would do away with the coleman stove and gas. Cast bullets and lube size as above. I would recommend a electric bottom pour in the 10-20 lb range as the 250 grn 45 colts will empty a smaller pot pretty quickly.

Adding a lube sizer machine is next up Lyman, RCBS, Star. this applies lube and sizes bullets in one pass. uses stick lubes and some of these require a heater for the lube sizer also. No waiting for liquid alox to dry. but takes room on the bench, nose punches and dies for each caliber / dia of bullet.

Other options are PC coatings

38 spl 45 acp 45 colt 9mm and 9 mak respond very good to cast bullets usually. The 7mm 08 and 223 may take some tinkering with alloy and size along with casting techniques to get best performance. The 22s cn be fun to cast as very little lead goes into the mould, making keeping the mould up to temp harder. But at just 45-60 grns a 10 lb pot lasts along time. Te longer rifle bullets may be a little harder to cast match grade bullets with.

One thing to do if you can is look over several casting set ups and see what might work for you. When buying equipment don't forget the PPE ( Personal protective equipment), Saftey glasses, a hat. heavy leather gloves long heavy pants, long sleeved shirt, Leather shoes or better boots. Keep in mind your working with 700* molten metal doing this and be safe.

Last on the list is a lead supply of the desired alloy. ingots of certified alloy can be purchased from several sources roto metals buffalo arms and others. For a new caster these are a good option as it takes blending an alloy out of the mix. Once the actual bullet casting is learned then blending and scrap metals is added. Cleaning and blending scrap metals ( wheel weights pipe lino type mono type0 isn't super hard but may require a slightly different set up and size .

[earlmck]

I have one Hoch mould and it turns out a beautiful 58 grain 22 cal boolit, once I figured out it needs contact with the pour spout on my bottom-pour pot to fill perfectly (it is the only mould I have that needs contact). I don't know if that is a characteristic of nose-pour moulds, Hoch moulds, or this particular mould because as we know, all moulds have their own character that we are required to discover.

But even though this makes a beautiful boolit I seldom cast with it because I am an old pharte and can only stand to cast for about an hour before the old back calls "time" on me. And the 6-cavity Lee turns out about a quart of boolits per hour vs. the single-cavity Hoch's cupful of boolits in that hour. Advantage -- Lee.

As I look at the 100% perfect bases on the Hoch boolit though, I do have the thought that "why don't our custom mould makers make all their flat-nosed boolits in the nose-pour configuration?"

[Cosmic_Charlie]

My most common reason for culling a boolit is imperfections at the edges of the base. Not guite filled out and rounded. This I assume is the problem that a nose pour mold addresses. Would that be correct?

[Chill Wills]

My most common reason for culling a boolit is imperfections at the edges of the base. Not guite filled out and rounded. This I assume is the problem that a nose pour mold addresses. Would that be correct?

If you are new to using a nose pour, getting full complete sharp base full out is often the problem. You might have to make some small changes to the way you do things.

With the Hoch for instance, getting the base to fill requires the base plate to be HOT. Hotter than a regular mold. Two things to do right off; Turn up the pot heat maybe 50 f more, and do the thing I do for all molds, set the mold on the top edge of the pot from the get-go when you turn on the melter pot. In other words put the mold on the topside of the lead pot and cover it with a square of aluminum foil. The cover does not have to be neat. Just cover and wraped around the mold and cover the top of the pot. (don't wrap the wood handles) This way it holds the heat in and the base of the molds is in contact with the pot. The first bullet out of the mold will be good IF ...... all the other stuff is right. But at least your mold heat will be correct.

[slugflinger]

Lots of good info here guys, and it is all appreciated! Country gent- I have a new Lee 20 Lb. bottom pour pot, and have a couple of Lee molds so far. A 140 gr. swc. 358", and a 200 gr. swc 452". Also have a 10 lb Lee that I have used for jig heads, sinkers. I mixed up some Ed's Liquid lube, and have been using it to tumble lube commercial cast bullets for a while, so that will likely be the method for lubing, at least at first. PPE was considered first. Lead supply is going in fits and starts, but I have a small amount. Coww, and ingots from cow too. (Need some Roof flashing or other softer stuff for alloying.) Cosmic_charlie- those were my thoughts also, that since most if not all of my culls of commercial cast slugs (from base pour molds) have perfect noses, why are nose pour molds not more popular? Anyway, it seems that all of the nose pour molds available are for rifle designs. Seems like a shame to me. Also, Why couldn't nose pour molds be made just like a base pour, only with the cavities reversed, and no bottom plate?

[Chill Wills]

Lots of good info here guys, Also, Why couldn't nose pour molds be made just like a base pour, only with the cavities reversed, and no bottom plate?

Some are. You just have to look around.
BTW - that match bullet has been bumped to its new nose shape, but it was cast on the mold pictured.

[Bent Ramrod]

Eagan moulds were made as you describe, with no plate, plug, or adjustment screw at the bottom. The addition of base plate/plug or adjustment screw adds considerably to the expense of the mould.

However, the advantage such designs have is that the shank of the cherry is as big as the diameter of the boolit cavity. It is stout enough so that it can be used for many moulds, and only discarded when sharpened down to the point it cuts an undersized cavity.

The cherry on a nose-pour mould with no through-hole must have the cherry shank the size of the sprue hole, as small as possible for the smallest nose flat. This will break more often, and the considerable cost of replacement has to be factored into the cost of the smaller number of moulds made. So they’re expensive, too. No escape.

I suppose some genius could make a nose-pour mould by boring out the cavity on a lathe, but I’d like to watch him doing it. It would be the machinist version of building a ship in a bottle.

I’m sure Hoch has made nose-pour moulds for pistol boolits, but I can’t imagine any accuracy enhancement over a well-cast base-pour boolit of the same design at pistol ranges. Even at long range for blackpowder target shooting, a properly cast base-pour boolit can hold its own with any nose-pour, or even swaged, projectile. Still, the concept has its adherents, and the moulds are classy pieces of craftsmanship. If the extra expense, lower production rate and technique requirements don’t matter in your pursuit of The Ultimate In Cast-Boolit Accuracy, go for it.

[MT Chambers]

Bullets from Don Eagan's nose pour molds hold most BR records and are a delight to use, he is shooting and casting in a better place now.

[slugflinger]

Just when we are on the cusp of innovation, physics has to rear it's ugly head. I can see the problems with weakness in the shoulder of a cutting cherry being a problem. I can also see where lathe cutting such cavities in a mold would be impossible without a hole big enough for the cutting tools to access the cavities. My own shooting/ reloading has always been geared toward hunting, and I have only been interested in flat point cast bullets. Will have to think on this some more.

[Good Cheer]

I have two, both made for me by Richard Hoch in the early eighties to fit specific firearms.
One of them he made the barrel it is for.
Both are excellent.

[Edward]

Anyone here using any of the nose pour molds, and if so, how are they working for you? Been thinking of trying one of these molds, but thought I'd see if anyone here has had any good experience with them.

I found this old Ballard mold and my fast twist 45 G.M. barrel shoots it well paper patched and being adjustable length/weight makes me look for other barrels to try ! Attachment 218796