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Thread: Dedicated Peep Sights for the Umarex Gauntlet

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Dedicated Peep Sights for the Umarex Gauntlet

    I'm nearing the end of the 3D modeling stage of the dedicated Peep Sights I've been working on for my Umarex Gauntlet PCP. The adjustable Globe-Front-Sight is actually complete and ready to be 3D printed; all I need is a 3D printer. Both the front and the rear adjustable Peep Sights were designed to be 3D printed rather than machined into existence like some of the other Peep Sights I've made.

    I thought I had finished drawing up the rear Peep Sight as well but midway through the designing of the base I changed the position of where it would be mounted without considering the consequences of that change. I ended up with the front half of the Peep-Sight base off center from the rear half. It's an easily fixable problem but if I'd been paying attention in the first place I wouldn't have to go back and fix what needs fixing.

    The lower/base sections of both the front and rear adjustable sights can be altered or re-configured to fit nearly any barrel or scope rail type. The ones I have drawn up are made to fit the modified shroud on the muzzle end of my Umarex Gauntlet and the rear adjustable sight is made to clamp onto the narrow dove tail (I think it's 7mm) integral to the reciever.

    It will take a little more time to do the alterations to my 3D models but that's OK. I finally got the money together to buy the 3D printer I've had my eye on but it looks like they have quit taking "Pre-Orders;" at least that's the impression I got when their online ordering page refused to accept my money. I have a second choice of 3D printers as well but I'm going to give it a couple more days before I do any actual buying. This should buy me the time I need to get that rear Peep sights' CAD drawings modified.

    It's all sounds so easy when I write it like this. The fact is, I have to order the printer, wait for it to arrive, assemble what needs assembling and then learn how to use it proficiently enough to start printing my parts. In between all of that I'm sure there will be unforeseen growing pains and learning curves. Wish me luck.

    HollowPoint
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    Last edited by HollowPoint; 04-16-2018 at 08:04 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Your modeling looks great.
    Looking at your front sight in another post sent me down the road of planning an indexable sight that has rattled around in my mind for quite a while.

    Since the machine I have is a CNC mill, one of the rabbit holes I have been down is to alter a Harbor freight mini chop saw so I can grip well, and cut accurately, small pieces of aluminum.

    Your crosswire design is ingenious, but I am planning a post type front sight.

    I wonder if the vertical cross hair might be better installed with an oversize hole on top so you can insert the through it to the bottom, then a top insert to lock the wire in place

    I wish you clear sailing getting your printer running and sights built.
    Last edited by clodhopper; 04-16-2018 at 09:30 AM.
    To lazy to chase arrows.
    Clodhopper

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    That's an excellent idea on the vertical cross hair. I never thought of that. I figured it would be simple enough to slip it into place from the top and then just apply a heated pin head to the top of the tiny hole to lock it into place from the top. I suppose the same could be done from the bottom without the possibly unsightly look of melted plastic surrounding that tiny hole on the top face.

    HollowPoint

  4. #4
    Boolit Master melloairman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollowPoint View Post
    That's an excellent idea on the vertical cross hair. I never thought of that. I figured it would be simple enough to slip it into place from the top and then just apply a heated pin head to the top of the tiny hole to lock it into place from the top. I suppose the same could be done from the bottom without the possibly unsightly look of melted plastic surrounding that tiny hole on the top face.

    HollowPoint
    If you can deal with a front global sight the inserts are easy to make . Marvin

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Dan Cash's Avatar
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    Your rear sight looks interesting. How does it mount to the rifle, by clamping onto the rifle's dovetail?

    I agree with melloairman regarding the front sight. A globe receiver that will take standard apertures would be my choice if I were buying the sight.
    To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the trouble with many shooting experts is not that they're ignorant; its just that they know so much that isn't so.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I think every shooter should stick to what they like best and what works for them. In my case, The cross-hair Globe Front Sight is what I like. I've seen the plethora of front sight apertures available for Globe Front Sights but none of them have ever really worked out for me. Most, but not all of them tended to obscure my chosen target. (mostly birds and rabbits and such) For target shooting I think they have their place. Somewhere in my storage closet I have a small box with various Globe Front Sight apertures of different configurations. They were made to fit the various store bought Globe Front Sights I've owned over the years.

    I like the fact that the cross hair setup I have now gives me a sight picture similar to the scopes I use on my other rifles. Another thing is that my air rifles are nine pounds or above right out of the box. After adding a scope -depending on the scope- the weight goes north of ten pounds rather quickly. For carrying in the field this is a bit much for me. Others don't really mind that kind of weight but, the older I get the less I find it appealing.

    I haven't made or mounted these 3D printed peep sights but I'm thinking they will tip the scales at mere ounces as opposed to pounds plus ounces.

    My design is no different in terms of how they will clamp onto the rifles dove tail as several other reciever mounted peep sights. I have gone back in and corrected the alignment I mentioned in one of my previous posts. There will now be a snug fit onto the Umarex Gauntlets' factory dove tail so even the slightest amount of clamping force will hold it in place; and since these PCP air rifles have no recoil to speak of, I think this will be more than enough for worry-free mounting.

    HollowPoint

  7. #7
    Boolit Master melloairman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollowPoint View Post
    I think every shooter should stick to what they like best and what works for them. In my case, The cross-hair Globe Front Sight is what I like. I've seen the plethora of front sight apertures available for Globe Front Sights but none of them have ever really worked out for me. Most, but not all of them tended to obscure my chosen target. (mostly birds and rabbits and such) For target shooting I think they have their place. Somewhere in my storage closet I have a small box with various Globe Front Sight apertures of different configurations. They were made to fit the various store bought Globe Front Sights I've owned over the years.

    I like the fact that the cross hair setup I have now gives me a sight picture similar to the scopes I use on my other rifles. Another thing is that my air rifles are nine pounds or above right out of the box. After adding a scope -depending on the scope- the weight goes north of ten pounds rather quickly. For carrying in the field this is a bit much for me. Others don't really mind that kind of weight but, the older I get the less I find it appealing.

    I haven't made or mounted these 3D printed peep sights but I'm thinking they will tip the scales at mere ounces as opposed to pounds plus ounces.

    My design is no different in terms of how they will clamp onto the rifles dove tail as several other reciever mounted peep sights. I have gone back in and corrected the alignment I mentioned in one of my previous posts. There will now be a snug fit onto the Umarex Gauntlets' factory dove tail so even the slightest amount of clamping force will hold it in place; and since these PCP air rifles have no recoil to speak of, I think this will be more than enough for worry-free mounting.

    HollowPoint
    When I was making them I made a couple with just a dimple mark in the center not a hole . It gave me fast none obscured hunting site acquisition .The humane eye quickly self centers its self when looking through a hole or round tube . The small dot was easy to center through the peep . But if cross hairs work best for you so be it .Marvin

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    The inserts I liked were clear plastic with a chamfered hole in them. It was just a ring in the front globe that encircled the target with a small line of white around it but no wires of posts to distact and obscure the target. The ring from machining the hole and the chamfer gave a nice visible ring of a good width to be seen

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    I seem to recall seeing some of those clear front sight inserts back when I was looking for something that I could get accustomed to using. I never did try them first hand. Most of the ones I tried were the thicker black plastic inserts of various configurations. Back then my eye sight would allow me to shoot accurately with iron sights. During a very short stint in the Boy Scouts. I was entered in .22 caliber shooting match at one of our local military reserve stations.

    They trained with .22 rifles with peep sights mounted on them. One of the reasons the scout leaders entered me was because I was a good shot. (using iron sights) I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn shooting with those peep sighted rifles. My reason for buying them was so I could learn how to use them. Fast forward to today; I've learned how to use them. I've learned that the best sight picture I could come up with for my eye sight and my shooting preferences was the cross-hairs I've been utilizing in all of my Peep sights. Now days I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if I tried shooting with iron sight any more.

    My eye sight is such that I either need a scope or a good set of peep sights. Peep sights are cheaper than most good scopes (especially when I make them myself) so I mount those on my air rifles. When I'm in the field with my powder burners, I carry a set of peep sights as a backup just in case my scope ever takes a dump on me. That's never happened but if it ever did it wouldn't be the end of my outing.

    HollowPoint

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Ready For 3D Printing

    I had to go back in and revamp the front to back alignment of my adjustable rear Peep sight. Before, the nose end of my sight base was not centered with the Iris of the sight so it caused the need of some serious right windage in order to bring the sight centered with the bore of the rifle.

    On a sight component like this, when you adjust one thing it effects another so I ended up having to not only to adjust the front to back alignment but, I also had to now equalize the right and left windage otherwise I'd have an out of balance looking sight overall. You can see what I'm referring to by comparing the previous uploads of my computer renderings to these present uploads.

    I also went ahead and added an onboard rack to carry the two installation and removal tools needed to install the sights and adjust the elevation on the cross-hairs of the front sight. All the files have been converted to STL format so it's all ready to be printed. There's just one problem. I don't have a 3D printer, yet. I ordered one a couple of days ago so it should be here next week. Then I have to learn how to use it and then I'll make my first attempt at printing out my creations..

    HollowPoint
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  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    I got my new 3D printer; finally, after a few years of dreaming about it and saving up for it. I spent this morning printing out a few samples of the models I'd drawn up. I'm glad I went at it a little at a time cause if I'd gone hole-hog I would have been real disappointed.

    I printed out five of the seven parts it takes to make the adjustable Peep Sight I have pictured in my previous posts. For the most part they turned out OK; not great but, just OK. I attribute that to my near total lack of experience with 3D printing. I was using one of the complementary rolls of ABS filament that came with the printer. They sent me a roll of ABS and a Roll of PLA. The PLA was a semi-dark blue color and the ABS was white. For this application I believe that ABS is the better choice of the two.

    White isn't my color of choice but for testing purposes it's as good as any other color. I can see from the finish on the parts I did get done that even if I can up the surface quality of my tiny 3D printed parts I'm still going to have to do some post-printing clean up. Mainly of the internal and external threads I included in my models. The printed threads are just good enough that even though I have to do this post-printing clean up, all I'm really doing is running my tap and die over the existing printed thread to clean them up. I'm also having to run my reamers into the few small holes contained in my models. It's a good thing I was using inch measurements. I don't own any metric reamers.

    According to the estimated-time reading that the slicer software is showing, set at the setting the software refers to as "Standard," the largest part to be printed will take about an hour and a half. Just for the heck of it I even tried printing the ball bearings that will be used in my spring loaded detent assembly. I made the mistake of trying to get too fancy and print two at a time. Only one of them came out useable. I guess I'll have to print them one at a time in order to get some useable plastic ball bearings. The Windage and Elevation knobs turned out better than I thought they would; I mean, after I went back and cleaned up the threads with my tap and dies. Tomorrow I'll be attempting to print the base and the Iris. The base is the largest component of the whole Peep Sight assembly. I'm saving the Iris for last cause I'm thinking it's going to give me problems.

    It's printed thread side up. The Iris knob is basically hollow and with no supports in the center like the letter "E" and "W" that the Windage and Elevation knobs have in the center of their hollows, the melted filament may collapse under it's own weight as it tries to bridge the span from on side of the knob to the other. I'll most likely just try printing it anyway. It will allow me to see exactly what I need to change in my models to make them more conducive to 3D printing.

    I've ordered two spools of ABS filament. One in Gray to match the stock of my air rifle and one in black for the Iris and the Windage and Elevation knobs. The only thing I won't be 3D printing are the socket-head screws, the E-Clips, the Allen-Keys and the tiny springs for the detent assembly. I suppose I could print those too but, it's so much faster just driving down the street to the hardware store. Besides, I already broke the threaded shank of my elevation knob when I was cleaning up the threads. It would absolutely suck if I were to break the threaded shanks of a 3D printed screw while I was screwing or un-screwing them into place.

    I'll take some pics of my initial prototype white plastic peep sight once I get it all printed up. Just cut me some slack when you see them. It's my first go around with this 3D printing thing. Thinking farther down the road a bit, I was laying in bed the other night and wondering if I could print me up some ABS magazines for my K31 and my Enfield and my Tikka. It's something for me to look forward to.

    HollowPoint
    Last edited by HollowPoint; 04-28-2018 at 10:46 PM.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    this is great

    Quote Originally Posted by HollowPoint View Post
    I got my new 3D printer; finally, after a few years of dreaming about it and saving up for it. I spent this morning printing out a few samples of the models I'd drawn up. I'm glad I went at it a little at a time cause if I'd gone hole-hog I would have been real disappointed.

    I printed out five of the seven parts it takes to make the adjustable Peep Sight I have pictured in my previous posts. For the most part they turned out OK; not great but, just OK. I attribute that to my near total lack of experience with 3D printing. I was using one of the complementary rolls of ABS filament that came with the printer. They sent me a roll of ABS and a Roll of PLA. The PLA was a semi-dark blue color and the ABS was white. For this application I believe that ABS is the better choice of the two.

    White isn't my color of choice but for testing purposes it's as good as any other color. I can see from the finish on the parts I did get done that even if I can up the surface quality of my tiny 3D printed parts I'm still going to have to do some post-printing clean up. Mainly of the internal and external threads I included in my models. The printed threads are just good enough that even though I have to do this post-printing clean up, all I'm really doing is running my tap and die over the existing printed thread to clean them up. I'm also having to run my reamers into the few small holes contained in my models. It's a good thing I was using inch measurements. I don't own any metric reamers.

    According to the estimated-time reading that the slicer software is showing, set at the setting the software refers to as "Standard," the largest part to be printed will take about an hour and a half. Just for the heck of it I even tried printing the ball bearings that will be used in my spring loaded detent assembly. I made the mistake of trying to get too fancy and print two at a time. Only one of them came out useable. I guess I'll have to print them one at a time in order to get some useable plastic ball bearings. The Windage and Elevation knobs turned out better than I thought they would; I mean, after I went back and cleaned up the threads with my tap and dies. Tomorrow I'll be attempting to print the base and the Iris. The base is the largest component of the whole Peep Sight assembly. I'm saving the Iris for last cause I'm thinking it's going to give me problems.

    It's printed thread side up. The Iris knob is basically hollow and with no supports in the center like the letter "E" and "W" that the Windage and Elevation knobs have in the center of their hollows, the melted filament may collapse under it's own weight as it tries to bridge the span from on side of the knob to the other. I'll most likely just try printing it anyway. It will allow me to see exactly what I need to change in my models to make them more conducive to 3D printing.

    I've ordered two spools of ABS filament. One in Gray to match the stock of my air rifle and one in black for the Iris and the Windage and Elevation knobs. The only thing I won't be 3D printing are the socket-head screws, the E-Clips, the Allen-Keys and the tiny springs for the detent assembly. I suppose I could print those too but, it's so much faster just driving down the street to the hardware store. Besides, I already broke the threaded shank of my elevation knob when I was cleaning up the threads. It would absolutely suck if I were to break the threaded shanks of a 3D printed screw while I was screwing or un-screwing them into place.

    I'll take some pics of my initial prototype white plastic peep sight once I get it all printed up. Just cut me some slack when you see them. It's my first go around with this 3D printing thing. Thinking farther down the road a bit, I was laying in bed the other night and wondering if I could print me up some ABS magazines for my K31 and my Enfield and my Tikka. It's something for me to look forward to.

    HollowPoint
    im glade to see this stuff. Im a bit surprised there are not more parts being made with 3d printers. I don't know the technical ends but my friends son has a "cheap" 3d printer and makes small toys and such. Material he uses is not great though...
    Now there could be a nice little market for sights, small parts. Air rifle barrel spacers, barrel bands just to name some.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    There are a bunch of folks cranking out 3D printed stuff for sale; just not alot of them on this forum. From this first run of prototype components I can already see what I'm going to have to change in order to get better print quality. What I mean is, I'll have to change the surface of some of my components so they print better. Right now the lettering I've embossed on the surfaces of some of my components aren't really coming through as well as I'd like. Other changes will have to be made in the settings of the slicer software. That will be more of a trial and error thing. It should help me to brush up on my foul language skills.

    I actually have the largest component of my Rear Peep Sight printing up as I write this reply. It seems to be printing well but, painfully slow. On gizmos like this I can easily see it taking a full working day just to print out one full assembly of components. Only someone who really, really wanted one would be willing to pay what I'm sure will be an expensive add on to their air rifle. Other useful parts don't take nearly as long so I can see selling them for a decent price that more folks can afford. The Adjustable Front-Globe-Sight I designed is projected to take two hours to print; that's if everything goes off without a hitch.

    I did manage to re-vamp the design of my "Flop-Stopper" component so that it only takes a few minutes to print and it's now easier to install. You just clip it onto the underside of the barrel shroud and slid it back into position and you're done. It mitigates the vast majority of the floppiness that the barrel of Umarex Gauntlet is prone to having right out of the box. It's a tiny 3D printed part that offers a big fix.

    Once I get all the components printed out and cleaned up a little I'll post some pics.

    HollowPoint

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    My First Prototype 3D Printed Peep Sight Components

    Well, the surface finish sucks and the detail in the fine lettering failed to print clearly but, as a proof of concept print I couldn't be happier. Everything fit together as it was supposed to including the fit onto my Umarex Gauntlet air rifle. Once I get the print settings dialed in I think I'll have a very good set of dedicated Peep Sights.

    HollowPoint
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  15. #15
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    HP: I really like what you are doing ! Your rear sight looks excellent!

    I would like to make some recommendations. As a Machine Shop Owner for the last 30+ years I have seen this 3D Printer technology advance from a "barely functional concept" to near "Start Trek Replicator" And the ability to print metal parts has already been proven. I see the full on Replicator goal being met within the next 30 years.

    The entire purpose of these machines from the beginning was to eliminate the "Machinist" from the prototyping process. We always take too long and find issues with engineering proposals. this has been accomplished and now the goal is to move production away from the machine shop, and for short runs of parts It will be cost effective. I don't see it as being cost effective for long runs in the foreseeable future but eventually the elimination of Metal Removal machines will happen.

    Well they've got us out of it for the most part, but that is not entirely a bad thing. Now they can find their own issues. And now Engineers will have new duties beyond design.

    What I would urge you to do is to use your 3D printer to finalize your designs. Generate drawings and farm out production to shops which can make those parts from the appropriate metals, which would yield a real professional salable product. The Airgun world could use a decent clamp on Peep Sight. Beeman used to sell one made by Williams and I have had one for 25 years, but I don't know if it still is made.

    I have looked at making "Replicas" of certain Lyman Receiver Sights out of steel. Particularly 66LA's and #48S's as these are the most sought after on Ebay. I would generate drawings and make the first parts in house for several prototypes and then revise drawings and then farm out the production to shops I use frequently. This is what I did with my Hand Press and it has worked out well. I built all the parts for 4 prototypes, played with them and then made some minor changes and then made a batch of 50 sets of parts.

    I found some problems with assembling those parts and made some other minor changes aimed at easing the assembly of the parts and now have it beat. The second and third run of parts have been perfect.

    Keep in mind that there are alot of very small precision parts in a receiver sight. You have to suss out every single one of them. Each one of my Hand Presses has 36-38 parts in it depending on the model. Times a run of 50 equals alot of piece parts. your sights will be more of the same and whatever you can do to NOT Have YOU responsible for the creation of each of those parts will advance your cause greatly.

    I wish you luck, You have something that looks like it could work, and work well. If I can be of assistance feel free to contact me.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Hi Randy:

    I see it all taking place just as you've described with your Hand Press example. I wish I could get everything spot on the very first time but that's just not how it works; at least not for me any way.

    Designing stuff seems to be the easy part for me. It's that, Getting It Built process that has always been the long drawn out part. I'm hoping that this 3D printer will cut that long drawn out section of this project down to a manageable length of time rather than what used to seem like an eternity before.

    Thanks for the encouragement. I appreciate it. If I run into problems that I can't find answers for I'll PM you.

    HollowPoint

  17. #17
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    HP: the only problems you should run into are with Clearances on your sliding parts. You probably won't be able to get good dimensions off plastic parts, but your drawings should show them easily.

    On your vertical slide you will need about .002 difference between the slide itself and the slot in the base that it rides in. If you are locking that slide in place with the cover plate like looks, you need the slide to be about .003-5 thicker than than the depth of the slot so the cover plate will clamp the slide in place.

    These are all minor points but in the end they must be there. Best to suss all this stuff out on your CAD program.

    When I first started using a simple CAD program to design my parts I used Bobcad to design a CNC Router for Bobcad. It was the first thing I ever designed where everything fit the first time out. I never went back.

    However that doesn't mean you won't have to make adjustments. I had to make about 3 or 4 adjustments to dimensions on the Hand Press to get everything to go together smoothly. There will always be changes that need to be made, it is virtually impossible to get anything that is remotely complex perfect the first time.

    Lots of times you will find that you want to make changes based on cosmetics or to add or subtract something from the design. That's all part of the process.

    Once I get something sussed out I am VERY RESISTANT TO CHANGE!!! However sometimes you just can't help it.

    Right now I am having to redesign a device that I thought was so perfect that everyone would like it. Well the main customer didn't like it so I have to make changes to the product. In this case it is not that big a deal and
    I can rework the previous models they bought and bring them up to what they do like easily,,, so it won't be a big deal, but the customer is happy which will result in future sales to them.

    There is only about 9000 machine shops in Phoenix, you should be able to find one that will work with you to perfect your product.It would be best if you had a Mill and could make your prototype parts at home. That way you would minimize the number of runs and wasted parts necessary to end up with a product. It is less expensive to find problems yourself and correct them before you have someone else make the parts and you have to pay someone else for your own mistakes.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check