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Thread: Gold Cup Follow Down

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Gold Cup Follow Down

    Hello Folks,

    A friend showed me an unusual malfunction yesterday. His Gold Cup allows the hammer to follow the slide when the magazine is empty. It stops on the half-cock notch. As long as there is ammo in the magazine the hammer remains cocked after the slide cycles. He has taken to loading an empty case and then five cartridges. That way he can shoot five normally.

    I forgot to ask if it only happens with one magazine, or all magazines.

    I suppose the magazine follower must be touching the disconnector when the magazine is empty, but neither he nor I can see how. Also, he let me shoot this gun a couple of months ago and it functioned normally then. Something changed

    Have you seen this malfunction before? Can you suggest a cure?

    Thanks, Tom

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    It is likely due to a worn hammer/sear or an improperly modified hammer and/or sear. The reason it happens with an empty mag is due to the reduced overall mass of the pistol as the rounds are expended. The problem will likely become worse with use and the hammer will start falling with a full mag in place.

    This malfunction is often seen when "bubba" does a trigger job and cuts the hammer notch improperly but a well used 1911 will also display the same problem. The fix is a new hammer and sear with the proper angles and engagement. On some pistols the sear spring will also contribute to this problem.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master lefty o's Avatar
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    his hammer and sear have been battered. it needs to be repaired, and he should quit dropping the slide on an empty chamber.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    Sear bonce causes this, hitting the slide release w/o a shell to chamber slams the slide home and bounces the ser hammer engagement and eventually you get follow the hammer sear engagments need to be re set.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by KCSO View Post
    Sear bonce causes this, hitting the slide release w/o a shell to chamber slams the slide home and bounces the ser hammer engagement and eventually you get follow the hammer sear engagments need to be re set.
    KCSO, you are correct but I'm going to offer some punctuation to clear up what you wrote.

    Sear bonce causes this. Hitting the slide release w/o a shell to chamber slams the slide home and bounces the sear / hammer engagement and eventually you get hammer follow. The hammer, sear engagements need to be re set.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    When I got started in Bullseye shooting one of my mentors was a military shooter. He told me that the angles on the hammer and sears on most 1911s were such that the mainspring pressure and the rotation of the hammer would force the top of the sear back into the hammer and hold it there. FOR BULLSEYE COMPETITION 45s many gunsmiths would change these angles when they fit a hammer and sear. They reduced the angle so that the sear just propped the hammer up and the hammer did NOT hold the sear back. With this type of trigger job you could experience hammer follow. He went on to say that when you are chambering the first round either hold the trigger back so the disconnector prevents sear movement or hold the hammer back so there is no pressure on the sear. Then when you release the hammer you will have full hammer-sear engagement.

    The Gold Cup was designed as a match gun. We have no way to know what the angles were when the gun is new or what they are now. If the hammer is following when chambering a round when the gun has been fired the hammer and sear definitely need to be looked at. If it happens when chambering the first round maybe you can get by holding the hammer back while releasing the slide. That will be your decision and you need to tell everyone who shoots it to hold the hammer back also.

    If this gun is going to be used for anything other than bullseye type shooting at a range I would have the trigger and hammer looked at and either tuned up or replaced.
    If you get your shots in the black, the 10s and Xs will take care of themselves.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Gold Cups, have a extra factory installed interuptor in the sear system.

    And a LITTLE BITTY COIL SPRING that powers it.

    If you do not know the coil spring is there it goes PUFF into where ever.
    And you need a special slave pin to put it back together correctly.

    When we had to work on these years ago as a Service center, we always got a cardboard box to place the frame into when we had to take the sear out to try to catch the coil spring once the sear pin was removed.

    So be warned a Gold Cup sear is not torn down like a normal 1911

    JW

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Jim Clark Sr. Explained this to several of us at a match when one of his Pin Guns did a three shot burst while my friend was trying it out. Texarkana 1982- good times.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Boolit Master


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    If there was no changes to sear geometry then it could be the sear spring that weakened. A new spring or increasing the pressure by bending the leaf forward may solve the problem.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    The spring referred to by wv109323 has three legs. One presses against the sear. Placing more tension on the leg which presses against the sear will prevent hammer follow through.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Yep...funky trigger job or worn parts. In 1992, I sent a brand new Colt GM to Jim Clark for a trigger job and it came back with the hammer following the trigger, when the slide was locked and the slide release depressed. It went back with a hot letter, and when it came back, it did not do this, but the slide would not lock back after the last round was fired. My good Colt mag, did not make it back, but some junk mag came back in the gun. I cut my loses and replaced the recoil spring and magazine and everything worked fine. I was not happy. I do not understand how work this shoddy, could make it out of the door of any competent gunsmith. Even if they turn the work over to a less experienced person in the shop, somebody should do a quality check before it is shipped back to the owner.

    This and two more experiences with highly regarded gunsmiths stopped me sending guns off for work and learned to do it myself.

    Yea, yea, I know none of you had this problem and I was just snake bit.
    Last edited by Char-Gar; 04-15-2018 at 09:45 PM.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    KCSO, you are correct but I'm going to offer some punctuation to clear up what you wrote.

    Sear bonce causes this. Hitting the slide release w/o a shell to chamber slams the slide home and bounces the sear / hammer engagement and eventually you get hammer follow. The hammer, sear engagements need to be re set.
    Iffy hammer sear engagements and a heavy steel trigger can induce the bounce real easy. This is why I fit good aluminum triggers to my 1911.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    Need to order an aluminum trigger and get rid of the steel factory trigger. Lighter means less inertia. Second, bend the left leaf of the 3 legged leaf spring alittle foward to add more pressure to the sear. This tweak may in itself fix the problem if someone lightend it up without changing out the trigger. If it doesn't, resquare the hammer hooks, check for hook height .030 factory, .020 good and < .016 replace hammer. Re-cut the sear to JMB spec and relieve 40-50% and 3rd, quit dropping the *&#*ing slide on an empty mag/no mag. The round is supposed to cushion the slide locking up with the barrel thus reducing force on the barrel feet.

    Note: If the hammer needs to be replaced due to wear or high round count, go ahead and upgrade to tool steel parts and replace both sear and hammer. This will delete the Colt factory sear interupter, parts 46 and 47 in diagram that Mr Wisner mentioned.

    https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-man...ts-list-gcnm80
    Last edited by Greg S; 04-26-2018 at 06:21 AM.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    His Gold Cup allows the hammer to follow the slide when the magazine is empty. ... As long as there is ammo in the magazine the hammer remains cocked after the slide cycles.
    quit dropping the *&#*ing slide on an empty mag/no mag.
    How in the world does one load the last round from the magazine without closing the slide?

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatume View Post
    How in the world does one load the last round from the magazine without closing the slide?
    The guy was talking about an empty mag or no mag. He was not talking about the last round.

    Where there is no round to be chambered, there are (as you know) two ways to close the slide. You can release the slide lock and let the slide slam forward or you can release the lock, while holding the slide back and ease the slide forward. The guy is complaing about the first and not the latter.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    Hummmm, AMTU taught us to hold hammer back with thumb of left hand when chambering a round, keeps it safe. To this day always do this on all 1911 types, even on BHPs. Better safe than sorry. JMHO.
    10-x

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  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    The extra 2 parts on the Gold Cup sear do wear out. I have replaced mine twice in the last 50,000 rounds. The parts look like a tiny coil spring and a stamped metal flipper. I would suggest replacing these two parts and see if it cures your problem.

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