Sensitivity of Black Powder to Static Discharge

[john.k]

Anyone who has worked in a refinery would have seen a safety demonstration of a high static charge set up in petroleum liquid just by pumping into a container.Fuel sold has a static dispersant added to eliminate static buildup.....The static charge needs to reach a certain energy level before it will ignite vapors or gases or dusts.Some very low,like acetylene oxygen mixes,some quite high hydrocarbon air mixes.Blackpowder will have a certain energy threshhold,a spark with higher energy will ignite.....And according to Davis,blackpowder does ignite by a blow,and gives tables of tests of explosive initiation energies."Chemistry of Powder and Explosives " T Davis.

[bigted]

What i find very interesting ( being an arm chair delver in human behaviour) is the ability of any of us to take offense to a word or phrase written or spoken that inspires a rush of heat in our mind that turns into anger without any seemingly "just cause".

This thread is prime example of a near miss of the above statement.

The word CHICKEN is thought of by many as a derogative term and by a few as just an example of being skittage of an action or phrase.

The term " being CHICKEN" takes me ... for example ... back to being taunted into doing something that will either injure me or cause mega trouble to be visited on my freedom or the seat of my britch's.

Therefore the above phrase " if you are still CHICKEN " refers to a fear of bodily harm and not a direct inference that your masculinity is in danger of being brought into dispute.

Interesting how these things get sometimes fluffed into an explosive exchange with just the slightest amount of spark in the brain to react to stimulation inside our brain as we react to childhood challenges that we bring crashing forward into adult life reactions.

OH YEA

And i use all plastic measures with all powders to include black with nary a thought of problems. I buy my powder in PLASTIC containers and think nothing of it. Seems like this comes and goes from time to time with the same old answers and questions ... so goes life and the circles it seems to travel in.

WHEWWW!

[indian joe]

What i find very interesting ( being an arm chair delver in human behaviour) is the ability of any of us to take offense to a word or phrase written or spoken that inspires a rush of heat in our mind that turns into anger without any seemingly "just cause".

This thread is prime example of a near miss of the above statement.

The word CHICKEN is thought of by many as a derogative term and by a few as just an example of being skittage of an action or phrase.

The term " being CHICKEN" takes me ... for example ... back to being taunted into doing something that will either injure me or cause mega trouble to be visited on my freedom or the seat of my britch's.

Therefore the above phrase " if you are still CHICKEN " refers to a fear of bodily harm and not a direct inference that your masculinity is in danger of being brought into dispute.

Interesting how these things get sometimes fluffed into an explosive exchange with just the slightest amount of spark in the brain to react to stimulation inside our brain as we react to childhood challenges that we bring crashing forward into adult life reactions.

OH YEA

And i use all plastic measures with all powders to include black with nary a thought of problems. I buy my powder in PLASTIC containers and think nothing of it. Seems like this comes and goes from time to time with the same old answers and questions ... so goes life and the circles it seems to travel in.

WHEWWW!

hmmm
"if you are still chicken" says to me ---so you are so scared of something that ..I.. know for sure will do ..you.. no harm whatsoever that you take these foolish extra precautions wasting time and energy in stupid safety measures . ....

[john.k]

Havent heard the term "chicken" since i was at primary school 60 years ago.....generally just before you did something like jumping off the roof,or riding your bike down "dead mans hill".

[Woodnbow]

Many years ago I worked at a military base towing helicopters to and from maintenance. Each time I towed one out of the maintenance hangar it had to be refueled. Each time the pumper had to attach a grounding cable to prevent a fire hazard.

And JP5 (or whatever is currently in use) is not prone to explosion in the normal sense of the word.

[Woodnbow]

I read the report (supposedly) of the last blowup of the GoEx plant - (Moosic PA - 1990's) - short version - employee goes into dust filled processing room to change defective light switch - forgets to turn the power off first - shorts wires in the switch and starts a fire which then goes BANG big time - the amazing part was he actually had time to run. Same circumstances (or very similar) in dusty grain storage silos have ended in similar fashion. Carelessness and cutting corners has a large part in these incidences. ( and most other "accidents")

A grain elevator exploded in my hometown when I was in my early teens. Grain, wood, or blackpowder dust is explosively flammable.

[indian joe]

If you are still chicken find some stainless steel screen and cut a piece to line your plastic powder hopper.

I dont believe I wrote that (it was posted twice) so double dont believe I wrote it
several reasons I dont believe I wrote it

mainly - I have NEVER - not once EVER - loaded blackpowder through a powder measure with a hopper - I do not do that - I do a lot of my powder charging from a powder horn into the empty brass - if not that then I use a scoop measure out of a wide mouth container on the bench direct to the scale tray then drop tube it

So the idea of using a mechanical measure with a hopper (any kind) is foreign to me -- I think somebody scammed me on this one .......

[GregLaROCHE]

I think I remember a video where someone tried to set BP off with a taser. It wouldn’t ignite. I’m pretty sure it was BP, but it could have been smokeless. It was a while ago.

[Outpost75]

Not black powder, but I can tell you that static discharge will detonate accumulated primer dust in a Camdex loading machine which is improperly maintained and not grounded. Operator died and NJ State Fire Marshall wrote the report in the NFPA Journal 1980s.

[M-Tecs]

From the people that make their own BP we know that BP dust and granular BP is not the same in regards to static discharge.

No real suprise there since that is true of lots of very fine dusts.

[indian joe]

I bet you could inject Outpost's "poorly maintained" into most of the blowups (blackpowder factories, grain silos, many other places) that have happened over the years - add a dose or two of casual to the mix (familiarity breeds contempt) - then we have 10 % of the population whose IQ is so low that the US military cannot make use of them (according to Jordan Petersen) - and another -?-% who seem to believe in periodic cleansing of the gene pool via risky acts of random stupidity.

[M-Tecs]

I dont believe I wrote that (it was posted twice) so double dont believe I wrote it
several reasons I dont believe I wrote it

So you are claiming you didn't write posts 32, 34, 35 & 38???????????

If you want to know have No_1 check the IP addresses.

[indian joe]

So you are claiming you didn't write posts 32, 34, 35 & 38???????????

If you want to know have No_1 check the IP addresses.

just that double post (34 &35) 32 I wrote for sure and also 38

water under the bridge - but do ya get my point ? I never in my life used a meter type measure for blackpowder - not because I was against the idea so much as it just dont fit the way I do things. I recognise stuff I write and that double post I dont .................

I am a bit sceptic on static ignition of black - we know it needs a hot spark - 360 degrees ? whatever -- that would take a serious static charge to generate? - or would it ? I get zapped if I slide on a car seat then touch the steering wheel - spark 3/4 inch long and a decent little jolt ---and yeah dust is a different animal to grains for sure, a film of dust will flash burn real fast.

[country gent]

Even worse in elevatirs and some grain milling is the dust thats stirred up and suspended in the air. floating just like the fumes from flammable liquids its a bomb if it goes.

[Travisbishop]

I've been making and shooting black powder since 1974 and I've yet to have any touch off from static. I'm not saying it can't happen though. I don't plan on trying it out either.

[willy]

I see a lot of people don’t believe static electricity can set off a powder charge,,,I am one who has experienced it happen,, I was loading my second shot into my 1841 Mississippi rifle after swabbing the bore from the first shot to make sure there were no hot embers in the barrel ( safety first),,When I dropped the charge of 70 grains down the barrel I just reached for a mini ball and WHOOOOOSH!!! The charge in the barrel went off,,, lucky for me I always practice safety and wasn’t over the barrel when it went off,, the only harm done was burnt eyebrows and it blew the cherry off my cigar..The only thing I can think of is it was static electricity that set the charge off… Remember the most important safety with all firearms isn’t on the gun,,it’s in your head,,stay safe.

[Don McDowell]

Hmm lit cigar, loose powder charge in the barrel of a just fired rifle, and it was static electricity....

[M-Tecs]

I see a lot of people don’t believe static electricity can set off a powder charge,,,I am one who has experienced it happen,, I was loading my second shot into my 1841 Mississippi rifle after swabbing the bore from the first shot to make sure there were no hot embers in the barrel ( safety first),,When I dropped the charge of 70 grains down the barrel I just reached for a mini ball and WHOOOOOSH!!! The charge in the barrel went off,,, lucky for me I always practice safety and wasn’t over the barrel when it went off,, the only harm done was burnt eyebrows and it blew the cherry off my cigar..The only thing I can think of is it was static electricity that set the charge off… Remember the most important safety with all firearms isn’t on the gun,,it’s in your head,,stay safe.

That gave me the biggest smile of the day...................Thanks

[indian joe]

Hmm lit cigar, loose powder charge in the barrel of a just fired rifle, and it was static electricity....

[45-110]

When this happens while musket shooting it is almost always on the 2nd shot. The first shot ignites a left over thread/lint/crud from the previous cleaning. Not static electricity! NSS-A shooters frequently wear a leather glove on the ramrod hand for pre ignitions.
kw