Load DataRotoMetals2Titan ReloadingRepackbox
Lee PrecisionWidenersInline FabricationPBcastco
Reloading Everything MidSouth Shooters Supply
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28

Thread: 9mm Profile for P38

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,091

    9mm Profile for P38

    I'm working with a cool old P38. First attempts at cast boolit loads are no good. At an COL that kerplunks ok, it is too short to feed. Inconsistent failures to feed. Factory ball ammo at traditional COL feeds and cycles fine.

    Bullet profile was a Lee 356-125-2R. Freebore is almost nil. This gun likes a longer COL to feel properly from the mag (tip-in angle). Factory ball ammo runs fine.

    Here's what I think, and I'd love some advice or thought. I believe a longer/thinner profile like a truncated cone might be the ticket to help with tip-in.

    Looking at the Lee 356-120-TC.

    or maybe the Lyman 356402

    What say you?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    marlin39a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Paulden, Arizona
    Posts
    1,426
    I run the Noe 358-124 TC GC in my P-38, and Luger. They like them hot. Both those boolits should work.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master


    Walks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    3,028
    I grew up shooting the LYMAN #356402 cast of LINOTYPE, sized .356DIA. Many 1,000's were shot in WW2 P-38's & various LUGERS. Even a BIG RED 9 Broomhandle. Plus S&W Model 39's & Hi-Power's. Always at MAX LOADS.

    JUST MAKE SURE YOU HAVE GOOD MAGAZINES !!!!
    I HATE auto-correct

    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

    SASS #375 Life

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NE Kansas
    Posts
    2,405
    How did you determine the cartridge OAL? Did you use the cast and lubed bullet, or are you powder coating which will increase the nose diameter and require you seat deeper into the case?

    What is the powder and charge weight? If you are under powered, the slide is not moving back as far and might be altering the cycle time and thus try to return to battery before the nose of the bullet is in the correct position. Specifically, what is the "failure to feed"? Sticking the nose on the ramp? Not picking up a fresh round? Sticking the nose on the top of the barrel hood?

    Along with this, does the case eject to about the same position as the factory rounds? If it falls short, you might consider loading a little faster, if your book data will allow for that. Again, the powder and charge might be informative. What book are you using for your cast bullet data? More information will usually be helpful. Dusty

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master
    rintinglen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Orange, VA NOW
    Posts
    6,472
    The LEE Conventional 356-120 TC has worked well for me in a 1938 Mauser MFG Luger as well as several other more modern guns. Run them warm, near or at Max loads for best results in the old guns, which is contrary to the usual advice, but when I started working up loads in mine, the recommended start loads were an invite to a jam fest--and I didn't like that music at all. Unique worked best, though nowadays I would likely use Power Pistol which has become a favorite for me in the 9mm, since the bad old days under Obama when old favorites couldn't be had.
    _________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master




    bruce drake's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    4,231
    It was designed for a Truncated Cone bullet profile if I remember the history on that cartridge's development in the Post WWI timeframe. http://cartridgecollectors.org/docum...Cartridges.pdf

    I prefer to shoot TC bullets in all my 9mm semi-auto pistols.
    I Cast my Boolits, Therefore I am Happy.
    Bona Fide member of the Jeff Brown Hunt Club

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,091
    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bannister View Post
    How did you determine the cartridge OAL? Did you use the cast and lubed bullet, or are you powder coating which will increase the nose diameter and require you seat deeper into the case?

    What is the powder and charge weight? If you are under powered, the slide is not moving back as far and might be altering the cycle time and thus try to return to battery before the nose of the bullet is in the correct position. Specifically, what is the "failure to feed"? Sticking the nose on the ramp? Not picking up a fresh round? Sticking the nose on the top of the barrel hood?

    Along with this, does the case eject to about the same position as the factory rounds? If it falls short, you might consider loading a little faster, if your book data will allow for that. Again, the powder and charge might be informative. What book are you using for your cast bullet data? More information will usually be helpful. Dusty
    Good questions. Yes. Should have included more data.

    PC bullets. Sneaked down on COL until a consistent kerplunk.

    Cases eject similarly to factory ball. Did not chrony the factory ball ammo. Charges of Hercules Unique from mid to high 4s runs 1050ish to 1100ish. I think I have enough recoil impulse.

    Same loads cycle a Norinco 213 (an interesting pistol) flawlessly. Different gun geometry though.

    Nose-up jam into the hood of the barrel.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,091
    I appreciate the input guys. Thank you very much.

    A 6 cav Lee TC mold is en route. I'll let you know how it goes.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master

    gwpercle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Posts
    9,222
    My 1944 cyq Walther P38 , although lacking the finely finished surfaces of earlier manufactured P38's actually will feed, fire and eject everything. I did replace the recoil springs and magazine spring with new Wolff's springs. The following boolits have all worked: all boolts sized .357 and no tumble lube designs , TL design did not work in mine.

    Lee 105 gr. SWC
    Lee 120 gr. TC
    Lee 125 2R RN
    NOE 124 gr. TC GC

    The 105 gr. Lee SWC shoots to the fixed sights POA with a moderate load of 4.7 grs. Unique, very accurate load.
    The trouble I had was with new guns...tight chambers, little or no throats...the old P38 only needed a load with enough powder to reliably cycle the action...boolit profile and seating depth was not a problem at all.
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
    " Let's Go Brandon !"

  10. #10
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    58
    The best, and my most favorite 9mm bullet of all time is the RCBS, 125 grain 9mm gas check bullet.
    .
    Sadly;
    it's painfully slow to cast,
    and,
    it's a pain to size, and apply the gas check...

    But,
    once loaded, they are plenty accurate enough, and they feed through any 9mm magazine, slick as a whistle.

    I shot a ton of those, ( 4.2 grains of bullseye ), through my old Beretta 92, until I just got tired of casting, sizing, gas checking, etc...
    .
    One day at a gravel pit, I set the sights of that 9mm, on a aluminum can and shot 1, ....the can tilted a little, I then shot 4 more, but, the can did not fall down.

    Thinking to self, "I am pretty hot with this gun, how did I miss all 5 ?"

    Turns out I didn't miss at all, ... fact is, I hit all five, but the energy transfer was so low, with those pointy 9mm bullets, that they passed right through the thin aluminum, the can simply did not fall down.

    5 neat little round holes, in that pop can, .......through and through, ....the can just sat there as if it didn't not even feel it.
    .
    .
    My favorite 9mm bullet is now an LBT 125 pb;
    it's fast to cast,
    no gas check,
    has a big flat nose,
    will knock down anything I shoot at,

    and,

    it feeds great in my model 19 Glock.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy sixpointfive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    329

    Wink What was your oal on 105”?

    What was the oal with 105?
    Quote Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
    My 1944 cyq Walther P38 , although lacking the finely finished surfaces of earlier manufactured P38's actually will feed, fire and eject everything. I did replace the recoil springs and magazine spring with new Wolff's springs. The following boolits have all worked: all boolts sized .357 and no tumble lube designs , TL design did not work in mine.

    Lee 105 gr. SWC
    Lee 120 gr. TC
    Lee 125 2R RN
    NOE 124 gr. TC GC

    The 105 gr. Lee SWC shoots to the fixed sights POA with a moderate load of 4.7 grs. Unique, very accurate load.
    The trouble I had was with new guns...tight chambers, little or no throats...the old P38 only needed a load with enough powder to reliably cycle the action...boolit profile and seating depth was not a problem at all.
    Gary

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy sixpointfive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    329
    What was oal for 105 sac?

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master

    gwpercle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Posts
    9,222
    Quote Originally Posted by sixpointfive View Post
    What was the oal with 105?
    I have used a OAL of 1.065 " and a OAL of 1.070" with the short Lee 105 gr. SWC boolet , both OAL's work just fine in my old P38 . I seat the boolit so the mouth is between the top driving band and the crimp groove with the taper crimp die . Holds just fine . I have no idea why the P38 groups it so well .
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
    " Let's Go Brandon !"

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    3,409
    Slug that P38.

    Mine slugged out at 0.3582 and the throat was too small to fit a correct sized boolit I'll have to get it throated)

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy sixpointfive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    329
    Thank you. I’m going to run 4.7 gr unique.
    Quote Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
    I have used a OAL of 1.065 " and a OAL of 1.070" with the short Lee 105 gr. SWC boolet , both OAL's work just fine in my old P38 . I seat the boolit so the mouth is between the top driving band and the crimp groove with the taper crimp die . Holds just fine . I have no idea why the P38 groups it so well .
    Gary

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy sixpointfive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    329
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	C0D247D8-7188-4AB7-B8EA-31641F0E66C6.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	17.0 KB 
ID:	247122

  17. #17
    Boolit Master


    Walks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    3,028
    If take the bbl/slide assembly off a P38 and stick a loaded mag into it you will see that the bullet has a almost straight line feed path.
    Copied into the Beretta 92 and Desert Eagle.
    The Truncated Cone was designed for the P-08 Luger. In WW1 the Brits complained that this was a violation of the 1899 Hague Convention as it caused Grievous Wounds. It forced the Germans to adopt a 124gr RN FMC.

    I've cast the Lyman#356402 for many years. Cast of Linotype it feeds it EVERYTHING. Just seat it to the edge of the bearing surface where it starts to angle into meet the small meplat. Works with every pistol I've tried it in.

    Lately I've tried some softer alloys, #2 mixed 50/50 with COWW.

    I used Linotype because that's what my Dad used. His thinking was a bullet forced up a feed ramp into a chamber needed all the help it could get.
    For Many, Many years Lino was cheap. I had over a ton, until 500lbs was stolen.
    Now at $3.00-$4.00 a pound it sure ain't cheap.

    It works just fine.
    I HATE auto-correct

    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

    SASS #375 Life

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy sixpointfive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    329

    Here?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	417A762B-3123-4CDE-8035-B32827894703.jpg 
Views:	22 
Size:	17.0 KB 
ID:	247125
    Quote Originally Posted by Walks View Post
    If take the bbl/slide assembly off a P38 and stick a loaded mag into it you will see that the bullet has a almost straight line feed path.
    Copied into the Beretta 92 and Desert Eagle.
    The Truncated Cone was designed for the P-08 Luger. In WW1 the Brits complained that this was a violation of the 1899 Hague Convention as it caused Grievous Wounds. It forced the Germans to adopt a 124gr RN FMC.

    I've cast the Lyman#356402 for many years. Cast of Linotype it feeds it EVERYTHING. Just seat it to the edge of the bearing surface where it starts to angle into meet the small meplat. Works with every pistol I've tried it in.

    Lately I've tried some softer alloys, #2 mixed 50/50 with COWW.

    I used Linotype because that's what my Dad used. His thinking was a bullet forced up a feed ramp into a chamber needed all the help it could get.
    For Many, Many years Lino was cheap. I had over a ton, until 500lbs was stolen.
    Now at $3.00-$4.00 a pound it sure ain't cheap.

    It works just fine.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy sixpointfive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    329

    Is this correct?

    Is this correct? Do you think 4.7unique is enough powder?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	0D1A4A43-0A00-47A0-B39A-8A526985802D.jpg 
Views:	22 
Size:	39.9 KB 
ID:	247142
    Quote Originally Posted by sixpointfive View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	417A762B-3123-4CDE-8035-B32827894703.jpg 
Views:	22 
Size:	17.0 KB 
ID:	247125

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy sixpointfive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    329
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	4CD3BE75-C88A-48DB-AFC3-B070509476A7.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	39.9 KB 
ID:	247143 is this the spot? Will 4.8 unique do the job?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check