An excersize in what if?

[greywuuf]

I have come to realize that I have a strong affinity for things of bygone era's ...having been raised in Mt. and spent all of my advancing adult life in Alaska I tend towards the "later end" of the black powder time frame. "mountain men fur trade" in particular is deeply a part of me. I have the itch to "build" my walking around gun. I have completed several kits and have dabbled for years with black/blade smithing and want to create as much of the gun as practical.

A couple of criteria for the gun....being in Alaska with BIG game you would think I would automatically go towards a Hawken.....trust me they are sexy and I have studied as many real examples as I can find info on....but it's not for me. I have come to appreciate a smooth bore ...more prescisely a smooth rifle.....turns out I get (sometimes) one hunt a year....and a large caliber rifle is pretty limited. I will be more likely to use the gun is it is a small game getter that doubles as a close range big game gun once in a while. Sounds like a "trade gun" right .. yeah well I don't like em that much.....more accurately I like half stocks and I want something a little differant. I happen to have a Bess lock (fairly recent import I believe) 1804 Barnett marked EIC .....Barnett was a trade gun lock supplier and I can't imagine that the Bess was equipped with a fragile or "bad" lock ...just large and heavy.... That's ok ..so am I. What I am imagining is something like this .... Somewhere along the End of the fur trade ... Civil war era ....cap locks are the thing, military muskets have been used hard and are no longer in demand ....hawkens are more common and more refined but the trade is dying ..the days are winding down .....a man of some skill works a bit as a Smith in a fort or frontier town and decides Alaska and North is his next move ... Caps are nice but supply chains north are spotty .. he takes the least desireable (saleable ie: cheapest) bits he can get and builds himself a smooth rifle to venture north with ......he has seen examined an possibly worked on the Hawken brothers masterpieces and likes the stock, the hooked breech and the barrel wedges .. but he wants flint and he wants a large smooth bore ..... What does he make for himself ?

(my version involves a 1803 HF stock fitted with a hooked breech hawkenesque extended tang and about a .68-72 bore) at least that is my leaning right now .....

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[indian joe]

I have come to realize that I have a strong affinity for things of bygone era's ...having been raised in Mt. and spent all of my advancing adult life in Alaska I tend towards the "later end" of the black powder time frame. "mountain men fur trade" in particular is deeply a part of me. I have the itch to "build" my walking around gun. I have completed several kits and have dabbled for years with black/blade smithing and want to create as much of the gun as practical.

A couple of criteria for the gun....being in Alaska with BIG game you would think I would automatically go towards a Hawken.....trust me they are sexy and I have studied as many real examples as I can find info on....but it's not for me. I have come to appreciate a smooth bore ...more prescisely a smooth rifle.....turns out I get (sometimes) one hunt a year....and a large caliber rifle is pretty limited. I will be more likely to use the gun is it is a small game getter that doubles as a close range big game gun once in a while. Sounds like a "trade gun" right .. yeah well I don't like em that much.....more accurately I like half stocks and I want something a little differant. I happen to have a Bess lock (fairly recent import I believe) 1804 Barnett marked EIC .....Barnett was a trade gun lock supplier and I can't imagine that the Bess was equipped with a fragile or "bad" lock ...just large and heavy.... That's ok ..so am I. What I am imagining is something like this .... Somewhere along the End of the fur trade ... Civil war era ....cap locks are the thing, military muskets have been used hard and are no longer in demand ....hawkens are more common and more refined but the trade is dying ..the days are winding down .....a man of some skill works a bit as a Smith in a fort or frontier town and decides Alaska and North is his next move ... Caps are nice but supply chains north are spotty .. he takes the least desireable (saleable ie: cheapest) bits he can get and builds himself a smooth rifle to venture north with ......he has seen examined an possibly worked on the Hawken brothers masterpieces and likes the stock, the hooked breech and the barrel wedges .. but he wants flint and he wants a large smooth bore ..... What does he make for himself ?

(my version involves a 1803 HF stock fitted with a hooked breech hawkenesque extended tang and about a .68-72 bore) at least that is my leaning right now .....

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Greywuuf
One of my trips to your country I managed to make it to the Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron Nebraska - what an eye opener that was - maybe I wandered into the wrong room there or I missed something ???but the gun you are describing to build - you could have put it in the rack along with all those REAL mountain man rifles and it woulda looked right at home - OTOH - all of the replica Hawkens I have seen woulda stuck out - "whats that little squirt gun doin there" ......They say impressions become reality ? But I saw a whole mob of rifles there - 54cal minimum, mostly bigger, 62 cal was common - big strong guns - 36 inch barrels - big strong reliable flintlocks like youd find on a bess or similar. .....maybe I was dreaming???

[Eddie2002]

I was thinking that a Navy Arms Buffalo Hunter would fit your ticket but they only came in a .58 caliber and had Hawkins lines to them. I like your idea of using a trade lock with a large smooth bore, most of the old timers wouldn't want to carry around more than one firearm and a .62 caliber smooth bore would drop just about anything from rabbits up to elk. Sounds like a good build.

[stubshaft]

The Buffalo Hunter was based on a shortened 1863 Remington Zouave rifle. I would suggest you get a Bess cut the barrel and stock down and put a half rib under the barrel.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

a real mountain man ( pre 1840 ) would not be carrying Hawken plains rifle. And I say that while I have 2 hawken rifles on the wall.

[greywuuf]

I know that ... And I am looking to do a "fantasy" rifle post fur trade era .. actually early cartridge rifle era .. say a man that caught the tail end of the fur trade and pushed north .....and for whatever reason did not choose a cartridge weapon..... (cost ,worry about correct ammo......maybe he was just paranoid and stupid) but something built of "surplus" parts ...the NW trade guns persisted with the indigenous Alaskans untill well into the 20th century .....so something similar but purpose built with whatever "features" he could afford / build /salvage .......

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[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Yes the trade gun or even a Leman would fit the bill.

[Good Cheer]

greywuuf,
A flinter TC Hawken with a Green Mountain .62 smooth barrel is as close as I'll ever come to your whiffy.
But yeah, the half stock big bore flinter is an excellent choice for hunting.
Especially if you shoot critters where they are instead of fleeing.