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Thread: primer fail?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    primer fail?

    I hope I post this in the right section?

    Two weeks ago I bought primers of Federal (Large Pistol No.150).
    My normal and trusted brand is Gynex, but they where sold out
    I had never problems with this load or cardridge.
    My recipe, D060 25,5 grain, RCBS cast 180gr, own alu GC.
    Also with LBT 167gr spits, yes new unprimed brass, trimmed and made a "edge?" to seat the primer more easy, like always.
    Gun was as always clean, PH1200 .308win 50 shots session.
    I did this recipe for.....10k+ shots?..maybe more
    And some 200gr silh from RCBS

    So nothing was abnormal, but what happend????

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    With best regards, Parker Hale

  2. #2
    Boolit Bub
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    The pistol primers are too soft for the pressure,use rifle primers instead of the pistol primers.Your bolt face will thank you.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    oooooeps.,. that simple

    I thought it was something more complicated, thanks for this eye opener!

    I feel really a little ashamed, I must know this, but did not give it any thought....
    The other remaining ones I will just shoot, and next week I will have my Gynex primers back.

    Thanks for clearing this out.I feel really stupid about this, awel spring is in the air!

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Hmmm -- QL says that is around a 30k psi load, so those pistol primers should not even be close to giving up from pressure. And when I have used pistol primers that gave up because of more pressure than they were built for, the "fail" was to pierce through in the firing pin strike dent. Looks like they just fit poorly in those primer pockets and are leaking gas around the side. Did you do some "primer pocket" prep work on that brass and maybe go too far?

    Obviously those primers are not a match for that brass, so Mike H. is right that you need to quit using them in that application.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    The large pistol primers are also shorter than the large rifle primers. They are going to move back to the bolt face. If you beveled the edge of the primer pocket too much, the shorter large pistol primer may leak some gas.
    There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialismóby vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide. Ayn Rand

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    Its a normal beveled edge, like I always do? They are just to short primers?
    I did not over trim the primer pocket, just as normal, I think?
    Maybe I did it to deep for the last few years, and now it comes forward?

    The only change is the primer its self, pistol, its just to short, I always had Gynex.
    They are harder then most primers, and rifle primers

    Hmmm tomorrow I wil de-prime them and have a closer look.
    I will report back.

    Thanks in advance!

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Grmps's Avatar
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    Bad run of brass? It happens

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grmps View Post
    Bad run of brass? It happens
    That's my take. I had it happen in a 22-250, .250 Savage, and a .240 Weatherby. I changed primer brands in the .240 and switched from Win to Rem brass in the other two calibers. It will erode (flame cut) the bolt face if it happens much.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    I think that your beveling of the primer pocket plus a soft pistol primer (federal are know to be some of the softest) allow the unsupported primer radius to pierce on your loads.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    I toke the primers out and there was no "gas blow" between the pocket and the primer it self.
    The primer pocket in the case is everywhere nice clean and shiny
    The hole is only in the primer itself.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    But they are a .310 -.320 ish to short, you can see a black thick ring on the bottem inside of the pocket.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    If I go closer with my cell, it will not make a decent picture, just one blur.
    Sorry this is the best I could do at the moment.

  12. #12
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    @Texas by god, the poor thing.
    I had a similair bolt once, but it was not from primer fails.
    What else could happend? Bad brass?

    And I REALLY hope its not a bad run, 1000 new ones.......f****
    I will make an entirly new batch of 100 with my own primers, lets see if it happens again, I really hope not

    Thanks in advance for all advice

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    Don't think I have ever read any load data for a rifle that indicates the use of pistol primers in a rifle load. Sorry if that sounds like being a dick....but really they're not meant for rifles.. Your firing pin looks like it hits quite a bit off center too; wondering if striking that close to the radius of the primer cup weakens it.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    "Don't think I have ever read any load data for a rifle that indicates the use of pistol primers in a rifle load"

    Many 22 hornet loads call for a small pistol primer.
    There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialismóby vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide. Ayn Rand

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Your picture is good enough to prove what you say. You can see the hole where the cup failed. I've never seen Gynex primers, where are you in the world? Your rifle doesn't need any more Fed LP primers that's for sure. The Sako bolt face I pictured got that way from only ten rounds on a Prairie Dog hunt. It was the brass in that case.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    As far as I know, Ginex primers are east European, Bosnia.
    They are pretty hard, very stable and consistent.
    Never had one fail.
    http://www.ginex.com.ba/public_html/Product.htm
    I live in the Netherlands (Holland) in Europa, Westwoud.
    In the usa is also a city that is called Westwood, after I did some resource I found out that the founders where from HERE.
    Also I have a vacation home in Poland, 15 years ago somebody in Rybnik (Poland) give me those primers, ever sinds I only want those.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    @ 35whelen,
    Nope, you don't sound like a dick....And you are right for 90%.
    I wanted to shoot my 308, and I wanted to shoot, and the gun dealer was temporally sold out of Ginex...
    So primer fits, it will go off....I thought it will make no difference.
    It did go off, but not the way it suppost to do, they are to weak, see pictures for results.

    The firing pin is off centre, I never gave that a thought, can it do harm?
    That Parker Hale was made in 1954.
    Was my dad's, he is casting/shooting somewhere else know, mine is from 1985, both 1200tx, next weekend I will see if mine is also out of its centre.
    But do I have to pay extra attention to some parts?

    Thanks all

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    Using pistol (short) primers allows for unwanted things to happen,its quite likely your primer blows into a convex form,or even redraws the cup,before pressure moves the primer back against the boltface ,flattening it .Overworking the thin metal,and cracking......So dont blame faulty components ,when misuse is the cause..

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    This is a lot of pain.....
    Six primers...six failed...Six holes on the bolts face.
    F*** a gun from 1954....

    By the way they are both off centre 1954 and 1985ish

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    F*** that 54 it was really neat.....don't go the cheap or fast route....wait for the good stuff, fa**
    I am really cranky about it.....don't go cheap or fast route.....
    I just f**** up a gun

    Yes for the gun knowers...... the bolt from the 54 is originally mauser k98

  20. #20
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    You'll probably be fine from now on by using Large Rifle primers only. My Sako that I pictured is still in use with no problems. Only I (and now you) know my bolt face is eroded.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check