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Thread: 7.65 Argentine carbine

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master
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    7.65 Argentine carbine

    Playing with a 91 Argentine carbine.
    Just got finished cleaning the barrel with Wipe out.
    Shot ok before cleaning.
    Load is reformed 270 brass, 314/200 GC, 16.0 of 2400.
    Around 1 to 2 at 50yds.
    Sights are not the greatest.
    Anyone have suggestions on other loads????

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    That’s the load I use, have not tried anything else. With irons I can’t shoot any better to know the diiference. About 2” at 50

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    I shoot the Lee 312-155 (sized .313) over either 17.5 gr. of 2400 or 26.5 gr. of H4198 in my '09 cavalry carbine. Brass formed from G.I. '06 cases. Accuracy - off the bench with issue sights - is a pretty solid minute-of-1 liter-Gatorade @ 100 yds.

    Bill
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    "Scarlet Begonias"

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy ak_milsurp's Avatar
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    I use the Lee 312-155 (sized .313) as well, gas checked, Water quenched WW+ a smidge of 50/50 solder to assist in fill out. 16 Gr 2400, CC1 200, two coats BLL.. in any brass I see fit to use... Privi commercial brass, or made from military .30-06 cases... In a Carbine length 1891 Argentine rifle with Lyman Peep sight. Very low recoil and wonderfully accurate, lots of fun to shoot.... Easily takes down a bowling pin shaped steel target @ 100 yds... never shot for groups.. BUT-- it does what I ask it to!
    "Remember the Range Day and keep it Holy. May the light of the Holy Tracer guide thy aim!"

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  5. #5
    Boolit Master

    Uncle Grinch's Avatar
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    I use the same 16 grains of 2400 and top it off with a 314299 boolit.
    Shoot Safe,
    Mike

    Retired Telephone Man
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    Marion Road Gun Club
    ( www.marionroad.com )

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I used IMR 4198 with an Ohaus 30-220, much like a Lyman 311284. This thru a 1909 rifle with a VG bore, did about 2.5" with issue sights at 100.

  7. #7
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    With the 314299s in my M91s and M1909 I use 28.5 gr 4895 with a Dacron filler. I size .314, use 2500+ lube and use Hornady GCs.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    With the 314299s in my M91s and M1909 I use 28.5 gr 4895 with a Dacron filler. I size .314, use 2500+ lube and use Hornady GCs.
    Larry, I’ve got H4895 and Varget and would like to try either of these with the 314299 but without a filler. Any suggestions?
    Shoot Safe,
    Mike

    Retired Telephone Man
    NRA Endowment Member
    Marion Road Gun Club
    ( www.marionroad.com )

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Grinch View Post
    Larry, I’ve got H4895 and Varget and would like to try either of these with the 314299 but without a filler. Any suggestions?
    My suggestion for best accuracy and uniformity is to use the Dacron filler, especially if shooting past 50 yards. However, if not using the filler then start at 29 gr with either powder and work up to 34 gr or until accuracy really goes south which will probably be around 1900 - 1950 fps.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  10. #10
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    Rifle: 1909 Argentine
    Groove: .3110
    Brass: 30-06 Rem sized down to 7.65 Argentine with no special work done to it.
    Powder: Alliant RL-22
    Charge: 45.0 grains
    Primer: CCI Large Rifle Standard (I don't like them)
    Temperature: 44 Degrees
    Humidity: 43%
    Wind: Less then 5 mph head on.
    Attitude: 2200 feet
    Shots Fired: 10
    Average Velocity: 2239 fps
    ES: 68
    SD: 25
    Group Size: 1 inch
    Lube: Soap Lube
    Gas Checks: Hornady
    Chrono Distance: 9 feet 1.5 inches

    ES and SD not quite where I like them, but it shot very decent. Being a 215 grain bullet the rifle has a little bit more recoil punch then lower weight bullets. Velocity is decent for a bullet of that weight from a 7.65. There were not fliers because I had to resight the rifle for 100 yards after having the scope and mount off it. The soap lube normally doesn't have a first shot flier and it's not affected by temperature changes. This shot exactly the same as it did previously recorded on my Excell spreadsheet.

    No filler!!!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

    Uncle Grinch's Avatar
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    Larry, I happened to drop by a flea market shop today and found some Dacron stuffing. I’ll try it also per your suggestion.
    Shoot Safe,
    Mike

    Retired Telephone Man
    NRA Endowment Member
    Marion Road Gun Club
    ( www.marionroad.com )

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    I think you'll be happy with the results. Just remember the polyester is a filler not a wad. Just push it into the case filling the air space.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Bore sluggs at .312, so need .314.
    Don't have a 160gr in .314.
    I'll try an beagle a mold to see if it will get that large.

  14. #14
    In Remembrance Reverend Al's Avatar
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    Are you using the Lyman 314299 (or similar) for the boolit? I have about a pound and a half of RL-22 on hand that I need to burn up ... and I have a 1909 Argentine rifle ...



    Quote Originally Posted by vzerone View Post
    Rifle: 1909 Argentine
    Groove: .3110
    Brass: 30-06 Rem sized down to 7.65 Argentine with no special work done to it.
    Powder: Alliant RL-22
    Charge: 45.0 grains
    Primer: CCI Large Rifle Standard (I don't like them)
    Temperature: 44 Degrees
    Humidity: 43%
    Wind: Less then 5 mph head on.
    Attitude: 2200 feet
    Shots Fired: 10
    Average Velocity: 2239 fps
    ES: 68
    SD: 25
    Group Size: 1 inch
    Lube: Soap Lube
    Gas Checks: Hornady
    Chrono Distance: 9 feet 1.5 inches

    ES and SD not quite where I like them, but it shot very decent. Being a 215 grain bullet the rifle has a little bit more recoil punch then lower weight bullets. Velocity is decent for a bullet of that weight from a 7.65. There were not fliers because I had to resight the rifle for 100 yards after having the scope and mount off it. The soap lube normally doesn't have a first shot flier and it's not affected by temperature changes. This shot exactly the same as it did previously recorded on my Excell spreadsheet.

    No filler!!!
    I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't reached my "Expiry" date!

  15. #15
    In Remembrance Reverend Al's Avatar
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    By the way ... have you ever tried IMR7828 in yours? I have several pounds of that on hand too ...
    I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't reached my "Expiry" date!

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy Throwback's Avatar
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    Timely thread. Just picked up a little 91 myself. Will try Larry's load and report back.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Al View Post
    Are you using the Lyman 314299 (or similar) for the boolit? I have about a pound and a half of RL-22 on hand that I need to burn up ... and I have a 1909 Argentine rifle ...

    I'm using the 30-06 bullet also known as the 30 Heavy Sil designed by 45 2.1, but I had Accurate Molds cut my blocks. Only difference is the Accurate bullet has a .180 meplat and the angles of the lube grooves sides are different. It's just a tad fatter too and depending what alloy I cast it with it can weigh anywhere from 215 to almost 220 grains.

    I have the Lyman 314299 and it doesn't shoot as good as that Heavy Sil....so far.

    Haven't tried the 7828. I have a massive amount of surplus powder that I can make do many different things by using different booster powders with it. I just happen by chance to try RL 22 in it and it performed very well. I may play with the surplus to see if I can get it to duplicate the RL 22. If you try the 7828 let us know what you got with it.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throwback View Post
    Timely thread. Just picked up a little 91 myself. Will try Larry's load and report back.
    I've had more then one carbine in my times. They all were pretty minty and matching numbers. I've notice that the carbine's rifling is a little different then the 1909 Argentines. It's more shallow and I don't think the chambers (mainly the throats) are exactly the same. I'll have to do a pound cast on them and see if there is.

    I have a real good surplus powder load for my carbine with that Heavy Sil mentioned in the other post that is my 50 yard load. Very pleasant to shoot and very accurate. I haven't tried my heavier load that I use in my 1909 rifle in my carbine yet. One thing is the carbine just has iron sights and my eyes aren't real good. It wouldn't be a good test between it and the scoped 1909.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Lee 314-160 TL, 14grs Unique. Shoots into less than 1" at 50 yards out of several of my 91s. I coat with Hi-Tek, either Red Copper or Gold 1035.
    Argentina changed the cartridge for the 1909 by going to a larger diameter bullet but lighter weight and a different powder. The original bullet for 1891 was .311", shot down a .314" barrel. Chamber and rifling may be a little different due to the Argentine government making their own guns in their factory after the 1909 was put into service. Some of the ammo for the 1891s was changed also which led to some of the 1891s having a different rear sight ladder. Not all got this changed.
    Don't recall on the 1909 contract with Mauser if extra barrels were supplied at the same time but 3 extra barrels were furnished with each 1891.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check