Lee 7/8oz Custom Slug Wads

[BigMrTong]

I measured the baase void / gaps with micrometers. Knowing the plastic shrinkage and being able to be very specific around sizing .. they are a nice push fit, but I do put a heavly blob of super glue in the slot before pushing them together. I haven't had one separate yet. In the back stop dirt, I find them mangled together in a blob.

Best of Luck! And please post pics!

On your Lee 3D tail wads... how did you get them to fit the skirt/drive key? Just close measuring? Laser scan?

I find that with hot melt glue the cast in tail wads sometimes come out. If the lead isn't hot the bond isn't very good, like cold shut. Biggest problem with casting tail wads on is the taper in the slugs. Makes it hard to get them straight in a form... doable but finicky.

I like your 3D printed wads. Great idea!

I hope all goes well for you tomorrow.

Longbow

[BigMrTong]

OK , so mixed results and more to do .. I assumed it would all be pretty straight forward after my success with the 1oz and 10g.



Just as a reminder, on these the 1oz Lee slug shoots best for me was my 4 fin rocket style base, but for the 10g it was a straight wall hollow base (although in the 10g its bore size and not sat in a shot cup)



My load is made up of : - Straight Walled Hull - HS6 Powder load - Paper check - MEC Fed Wad - 3D printed Tail Wad - Slug

The only thing I am altering in each test is the Tail Wad ...

[BigMrTong]

TEST LOAD 1 - 5 Shots with 20g Nitro card (no 3D print) Control shot

Not a great start, the target is 8" wide and only 3 of the shots hit the paper. I was not impressed at all. I had fine wad separation, but they seems to go anywhere in a 12"



this actually surprised me how poor it was, as it worked fine for the 1oz as a starter for 10.

[longbow]

Hmmmmm.... there's another thought! For those of us without 3D printers who use hot melt glue maybe gluing the glue would work. If the lead is hot then the glue sticks okay but since my forms are CPVC plastic hot slugs have limited high temperature so maybe I'd be better off using silicone lube or other mould release, casting the hot melt glue into the slug base and form as a mould then remove, clean in solvent then use epoxy of Super Glue to stick them into slugs. Currently some fall out of the Lee slugs as the bond just isn't good enough. They are of course a perfect negative of the cavity.

I'll have to check to see if epoxy or Super Glue stick to hot melt glue.

So remind me... you say the 4 finned tail wad works best on the 1 oz. Lee slug so you've tried the full diameter tail wad for comparison? Same length? What was the difference in accuracy? Any signs of damage to the recovered slug/wad from shooting?

I ask because I've tried three types of finned slugs and accuracy has not been as good as slugs with full tail wads. I figured it is because the shock wave puts the tail wad in a partial vacuum so more surface area is better for drag. Part of the issue was also collapsed fins. Heat treating the slugs solved that one for my wheelweight slugs but accuracy was still not great.

Longbow

[BigMrTong]

TEST LOAD 2 - 5 Shots with Rocket Tail

Happy and annoyed .. a nice 2" group with me pulling number 5 .. grrrr ..



I'm happy with this, it needs a little more tweaking.

[BigMrTong]

TEST LOAD 3 - 5 Shots with Finned / Ribbed Tail

This was the one I had high hopes for .. not sure why, it just felt right and it was a new idea I hadn't tried before.

Finding the paper wasn't an issue but it was a wide group, and some of the holes looks strange. was is keyholing ?



In the butts I found the wads at the back of the target, they had not separated properly and in a couple of cases gone through the target with the slug. The tail had eaten into and riped up the Wad.

[BigMrTong]

TEST LOAD 4 - 5 Shots with plain round hollow base tail

More or less on the paer, find in the wad, but all over an 8 inch group



Interestingly on all five of these and none of the others, a slight sign of pressure on the case.

[BigMrTong]

So .. nothing that blew me away, but the rocket fins have it again for me, and i'll start other work to improve it ...

[BigMrTong]

I'm pretty sure Super glue does not stick to hot melt glue, but you know as daft as it sounds, cant you hot melt glue the hot melt glue wad into the slug ?

The rocket sis the 4 fins and yes I did try hollow round base on the 1oz. 4 fin just groupsed a little better.

Tint marks on some of the wads, apart from the Ribbed one I did that left a nasty mark.

Hmmmmm.... there's another thought! For those of us without 3D printers who use hot melt glue maybe gluing the glue would work. If the lead is hot then the glue sticks okay but since my forms are CPVC plastic hot slugs have limited high temperature so maybe I'd be better off using silicone lube or other mould release, casting the hot melt glue into the slug base and form as a mould then remove, clean in solvent then use epoxy of Super Glue to stick them into slugs. Currently some fall out of the Lee slugs as the bond just isn't good enough. They are of course a perfect negative of the cavity.

I'll have to check to see if epoxy or Super Glue stick to hot melt glue.

So remind me... you say the 4 finned tail wad works best on the 1 oz. Lee slug so you've tried the full diameter tail wad for comparison? Same length? What was the difference in accuracy? Any signs of damage to the recovered slug/wad from shooting?

I ask because I've tried three types of finned slugs and accuracy has not been as good as slugs with full tail wads. I figured it is because the shock wave puts the tail wad in a partial vacuum so more surface area is better for drag. Part of the issue was also collapsed fins. Heat treating the slugs solved that one for my wheelweight slugs but accuracy was still not great.

Longbow

[longbow]

Pics! none of the latest attachments are opening for me! I need pics! Pics up to post 25 work but not after.

As for hot melt gluing the hot melt glue in... if the lead is hot then the hot melt glue sticks well but if not then I think the rapid cooling causes shrinkage and separation without giving a good bond. Pre-heating is a pain so casting tail wads then gluing in with super glue or ? would overall be easier.

That or altering the core pin to add a conical tit with hole in it so I can flare with a center punch which is likely even easier. That should hold like a screw as I use in my flat based slugs with hot melt glue tail wads and that works well... or just use my flat base slugs with screw and not bother with the Lee's. I'd just like to get the tail wads working for the Lee slugs.

Pics! Please fix pics! I need pics!

Yes, nice group in post 25 (that and previous pics are working).

Longbow

[Maven]

They won't open for me either. This is the message I get when I try: vBulletin Message
Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

[BigMrTong]

Pics! none of the latest attachments are opening for me! I need pics! Pics up to post 25 work but not after.

As for hot melt gluing the hot melt glue in... if the lead is hot then the hot melt glue sticks well but if not then I think the rapid cooling causes shrinkage and separation without giving a good bond. Pre-heating is a pain so casting tail wads then gluing in with super glue or ? would overall be easier.

That or altering the core pin to add a conical tit with hole in it so I can flare with a center punch which is likely even easier. That should hold like a screw as I use in my flat based slugs with hot melt glue tail wads and that works well... or just use my flat base slugs with screw and not bother with the Lee's. I'd just like to get the tail wads working for the Lee slugs.

Pics! Please fix pics! I need pics!

Yes, nice group in post 25 (that and previous pics are working).

Longbow

Ahh I see, that's a pain if you have to pre heat etc ....

Yes very happy with group two, just annoyed I pulled the 5th shot .. I knew as soon as I pulled the trigger ..

[BigMrTong]

Fixed hopefully !

They won't open for me either. This is the message I get when I try: vBulletin Message
Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

[longbow]

Just got back from the archery range. Might cast slugs this afternoon... we'll see. Archery and shotgun stuff happening the same day is a positive move!

Pics are showing up now so good stuff!

I am surprised that the rocket fins work better than full diameter cylinder but there you go... what do I know? A nitro card wad or a disk punched from polyethylene will protect the shotcup from slug damage. That's what I had to do with my finned slugs because they ate shotcups and even nitro card wads, they needed a polyethylene disk to protect things from the fins. Your fins are beefier than mine were, though I had 6 to your 4 so maybe even compression area?

That group 2 is pretty nice even with pilot error and I wouldn't worry about that, that you can fix much easier than slug problems! Group 3 is pretty good too. I wouldn't be upset with that.

Looks like you've got this going pretty well now. Keep up the good work and pics! I like the tail wad insets, very nice.

Longbow

[Maven]

Yes, I can see pics now too. Following this thread with great interest, and wish you great success, BMT!

[Hogtamer]

Test load #2, your best, look at what works....The fins seem extraneous to me as they are contained in the wadcup and apparently add nothing to accuracy so the best launch and flight come from the "rocket fins." The wide cross section of the base is doing less damage to the wadcups, so perhaps a thin 20 ga 1/8" cork or felt wad in the bottom of the wad cup would assure even a cleaner release and still allow a good crimp. I can't judge by the pics vut it would seem to me that the shorter the base (no more than 1/4") of your printed insert wad the more front heavy the 7/8 slug will be - a good thing in my experience. One other observation: I have had best results with shotcup wads that are not tapered on the inside. I have not used your wads. Don't know what you have access too but these work very well. https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Wa...rtments/83/?HP The Nobel Sport, HCD and trap commanders are all straight walled. You are doing great work! Change only one thing at the time to retain sanity!

[BigMrTong]

The Slug and its tail usually leave the wad between 15 and 20 meters into flight. What I think is happening is is the finned design is separating easily due to less wad damage / contact / grip and giving it a cleaner flight.

Test load #2, your best, look at what works....The fins seem extraneous to me as they are contained in the wadcup and apparently add nothing to accuracy so the best launch and flight come from the "rocket fins." The wide cross section of the base is doing less damage to the wadcups, so perhaps a thin 20 ga 1/8" cork or felt wad in the bottom of the wad cup would assure even a cleaner release and still allow a good crimp. I can't judge by the pics vut it would seem to me that the shorter the base (no more than 1/4") of your printed insert wad the more front heavy the 7/8 slug will be - a good thing in my experience. One other observation: I have had best results with shotcup wads that are not tapered on the inside. I have not used your wads. Don't know what you have access too but these work very well. https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Wa...rtments/83/?HP The Nobel Sport, HCD and trap commanders are all straight walled. You are doing great work! Change only one thing at the time to retain sanity!

[jmort]

This makes sense. The Flite Control wads have air brakes that seen to get the payload out and which is why they perform so well.

[longbow]

"Change only one thing at the time to retain sanity!" Now why haven't you ever offered that advice to me Hal!?! I think I went off the rails a long time ago. Still messing with too many things!

Actually now that I am back in the game I am going to focus on hot melt glue tail wads on solid Brenneke like slugs and just a couple of the better performers. I will also be ordering my choke tube adapter from Brownells today! They ship to Canada so all good. Then I'll decide on a choke tube to rifle, probably a tight turkey choke or blank choke tube. IIRC Colonial Arms offers blank choke tubes.

I wonder if BMT's solid wads are distorting some at firing and being full diameter then affect flight? It still doesn't make sense to me that 4 small fins in a partial vacuum work better than a full diameter lightweight skirt which should cause more drag (which we want) unless the tail wads are distorting.

My old TC HB slugs shot poorly even though they had a great weight forward design to them and I couldn't figure out why until I shot some into deep snow then waited until spring to get them. They had slightly belled skirts. Not a lot, just the bottom edge, but that made for poor accuracy. Oven heat treating solved the belling and produced quite good accuracy. It really doesn't take much irregularity to upset the slug's flight path.

Think of how much attention we pay to cast boolits making sure they have perfect fill out, bases are flat, even and have sharp edges, etc. and just how little it takes to cause inaccuracy in a rifle or handgun. I think slugs require that same attention to detail but it is tough to achieve with so many pieces in the payload and slugs that leave a hull "loosely" (not crimped in tightly and not in a throat), jump through a forcing cone and have opportunity to slug up unevenly.

I look at the perfection that swaged slugs and Brenneke's have and their injection moulded wads and wonder how I can reproduce that. I think BigMrTong has hit on a good approach with 3D printing. It may take some playinjg about with materials an details in tail wad design but a good approach that is very flexible to try different things... but one change at a time is good advice!

MBT those wads look like Win AA Reds. Are they? What wads do you have access to? It is worth trying different wads for sure.

Longbow

[BigMrTong]

Your right, one thing at a time !

I'm going to alter the powder load next. See how much difference that makes.

The wads are made by MEC ... this one ...

https://www.mecshootingsports.com/12...ht-4-petal-wad

Although I plan to try these, as I prefer the petal design to free the slug and I believe they have a larger cup, so I can have a longer tail again.

https://www.mecshootingsports.com/12...ht-8-petal-wad