Lee PrecisionMidSouth Shooters SupplyStainLess Steel MediaTitan Reloading
WidenersInline FabricationRotoMetals2Graf & Sons

Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Are there any 45 ACP load data that compare10mm 180gr, 200gr, 220gr bullet load?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master huntersdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    The Great Lakes
    Posts
    164

    Are there any 45 ACP load data that compare10mm 180gr, 200gr, 220gr bullet load?

    Are there any 45 ACP loads that can run on the heels of a warm 10mm round or do you need to jump to the 45 Super. The 10mm is new to me.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    1,808
    Quote Originally Posted by huntersdog View Post
    Are there any 45 ACP loads that can run on the heels of a warm 10mm round or do you need to jump to the 45 Super. The 10mm is new to me.

    Thanks
    This may seem like an overly simple thing but have you looked at Underwood ammo or Buffalo Bore ammo sight and compare +P data of both? That is what I would do but there again I am simple minded.
    Then look at the ballistics of standard loads in reloading books. That is what I would do.
    Now there are those that believes in diameter of the bullet also makes a difference such as Taylor Knock Out figures. Bullet types. etc. etc. etc. and more etc..
    Now there you go.
    We Know Mass Cannot Be Weighed But It Has Newtonian Weight And That Is Derived From Kilograms And Kilograms Can Be Converted to Pounds. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed. But How is the kilograms obtained? Can Kilograms Be Weighed? Evidentally Yes It Can. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed So Kilograms Must Not Exist. Funny Isn't It.
    One good thing out of this the next time I'm at the doctors and they want to weigh me I'll tell them mass cannot be weighed.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    Posts
    5,050
    With a 185 1150 fps plus is possible using Plus P loads of Power Pistol or Unique. That is well within hailing distance. This assumes a five inch barrel.

    Depending upon bullet seating depth and type of bullet, the same Plus P loads generate 950 to 1000 fps with 230 grain bullets.

    Carefully consider frequency of use, the firearm used, and the necessity of such loads before committing to a decision to load to such levels or shoot them in any volume.

    Common sense dictates any gun shot in high volume does not shoot high volumes of hot loads, be it 10mm, 45 Super, or 45 ACP. The probability of cumulative wear increases, and in all pistol designs the probability of cracks developing at sharp edged stress risers near the breechface goes way up.

    Battering is not the only problem. Cracking rears its ugly head as well.

    Obviously the first two are more prone to this than the 45 ACP. Hopefully this is for a modern pistol and not an indifferently heat treated old war horse.

  4. #4
    Frosted Boolits

    IllinoisCoyoteHunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Edwardsville, IL
    Posts
    1,596
    Depends on the pistol, spring configuration, and barrel. You can exceed 10mm loads quite easily if you have the right setup.
    Looking for an RCBS A2 with the removable bushing. I need it to complete my A series collection. Please let me know if you have one you want to get rid of. Thanks!

    My Feedback : http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...iscoyotehunter

    An armed society is a polite society.

    the BB knows

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    632
    45ACP loads of 1000 fps and higher are no big deal in 1911s. Years ago, all I loaded was the Jeff Cooper load of a 200-215gr. linotype cast Lyman 452374 RN with Unique powder to about 1000 fps. I just put in a slightly stronger recoil spring and my 1911 was fine with pressures of about 16,600-17000 CUP. IIRC the maximun pressure on the 45ACP is about 21000 CUP. If you drop down to a 180gr. lead bullet, then just about any powder choice will get you to 1000+fps with normal pressures(see Lyman's 50th loading manual). In the past, a lot of hype was used to justify the 10mm for gun/ammo sales purposes. That was done by operating the 10mm at a much higher pressure than the 45ACP, i.e. in some cases almost 10,000psi higher pressure. Higher operating pressures shorten case life. So in the real world, the 45ACP in a 1911 can very easily be reloaded to do 1000+fps, at NORMAL pressures, and shot all day long. A 45 caliber slug, of 180 gr. to 215 gr. , and moving at 1000+fps is one very,very lethal proposition.

    Best regards,

    CJR

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    9.3X62AL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Redlands, NorKifornia
    Posts
    11,233
    I have run 45 ACP with 185 grain bullets to 1100 FPS, but I think 1000 FPS is a better top-end load and will extend the life of your mechanism. 200 grainers I'll run to 925-950 FPS, and 230s get run to 875 FPS to duplicate my carry loads (WWB 230 JHP, put up with Lyman #452374). Basically--with a given bullet weight-class, the endpoint of my 45 ACP adventures is where my 10mm loadings start up. The 10mm is 20%-25% more cartridge, IME.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master pmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    East Central Minn.
    Posts
    1,241
    Does anyone know the original velocities that John Browning was loading too back when the cartridge new?
    Recent cast boolit hunts:
    buck & doe, Accurate Molds 36-225AG Model 94AE
    Russian Boar Accurate Molds 46-405A Marlin 45-70
    doe 32 Win. Spl. 1920's Winchester model 1894 rifle

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Denial
    Posts
    2,342
    I guess it depends if you're trying for a number, or if you're trying for a result, and even then, what is the result that you're trying for?

    I've mentioned my experiences elsewhere, and the forum alumni may be tiring of me mentioning it, but a hardball-speed, hard-alloy 230 grain .45 with a substantial meplat is good for 8-9 milk jugs worth of penetration, and was adopted as a successor to the black powder .45 Colt which was seen in its day as a horse-killing option. I wouldn't lack confidence to broadside an elk with that combination, were I sufficiently motivated by hunger to sneak that close. Those collected observations have pretty much turned my 10mm into a paperweight.

    The 10mm is going to win the trajectory fight, no question, just like its ancestor the 38-.40 would have had a trajectory edge over the .45C. Penetration of either can be greatly controlled via nose design and alloy hardness, so I can't say you'll ever find a clear winner when it comes to terminal effect (For the record, I'm firmly in the "Foot-pounds is B.S. camp"). If it's DISTANCE you want, there's the 10mm and a host of logistically superior revolver rounds to choose from. If a sub-50 yard fight stopper is your goal, it's hard to argue against the balance of power and control that JMB gave us a century ago.
    WWJMBD?

    "I'M MELLLLLLLLLLTING!" - Elphaba

  9. #9
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    102
    Lighter bullets in 45 like a 185 and a heavier recoil spring will be close or equal. The diameter of bullet could change penetration and energy transfer. Depends on your needs or targets to tell which one would preform better.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Tom, VA
    Posts
    4,362
    Take a look at CFE Pistol on the Hodgdon website:

    http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

    They get 1142 fps with a 200 grain cast LSWC at 19,600 PSI. The starting load is over 1000 fps at 15,000 PSI.

    These speeds equal the 10 mm Auto data for 200 grain bullets, but the 10 mm gains ground with lighter bullets.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master pmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    East Central Minn.
    Posts
    1,241
    This sounds fun, another thread here in this section has a link to the 460 Rowland website. If your talking 1911 he has guide rod and recoil spring setups for a variety of loads. I have the NOE 453-230 HP mould and it feeds great. With flat point pins it's closer to 250 grains. I bought it used and don't have the flat point pins but I'm sure I could order them. I've wondered how hard it would be to get that boolit close to 45 Colt SAA velocities.
    Recent cast boolit hunts:
    buck & doe, Accurate Molds 36-225AG Model 94AE
    Russian Boar Accurate Molds 46-405A Marlin 45-70
    doe 32 Win. Spl. 1920's Winchester model 1894 rifle

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    cody wy
    Posts
    695
    The NOE 250 is running 1050. The hollow point version at 230 grains runs 1100. Mostly load power pistol and Longshot.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master



    jmort's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Color Me Gone
    Posts
    7,495
    Quote Originally Posted by huntersdog View Post
    Are there any 45 ACP loads that can run on the heels of a warm 10mm round or do you need to jump to the 45 Super. The 10mm is new to me.

    Thanks
    No, the 10mm can have the most energy with those bullet weights by a wide margin. The .45 Super will have less energy, as well. You have to move up the PSI ladder regardless, and 10mm is there at 35k plus. That is why the .460 Rowland kills the 10mm at 40k psi.
    "Had his shooting been as good as his running, he might have given a better account of himself."
    James. C. Henderson

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Tom, VA
    Posts
    4,362
    According to Hodgdon the 10 mm with a 200 gr. HDY FMJ makes 1123 fps with 7.1 gr. CFE Pistol, at 35,600 PSI. The 45 ACP makes 1010 fps with a 200 gr. SPR JHP and 7.2 gr. of the same powder at 20,200 PSI.

    With a good old cast LSWC and 8.2 gr. of CFE Pistol, the 45 ACP beats them both at 1142 fps and 19,600 PSI. That's less pressure than either of the jacketed-bullet loads, and more velocity than either one. Although the 45 ACP cast bullet speed is not significantly different from the 10 mm, the pressure is significantly less.

    In fairness, the 10 mm is outside of its best performance range with 200 grain bullets. With lighter bullets it greatly outperforms the 45 ACP. With the 155 gr. HDY XTP the 10 mm Auto has a distinct performance edge at 1409 fps, 683 ft. lbs., and running at 34,900 PSI with CFE Pistol. The 45 ACP only makes 579 ft. lbs. energy. The 10 mm exceeds the best 45 ACP loading by 15% in energy.

    Both sets of data use 5" barrels, BTW.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    625
    If you drop down to 150 gr LSWC you can get some good velocities also. I buy them from Dardas and load them over 10.5 gr of A #5.

    I'm not sure if you are shooting a 1911 but I shoot these in an HK USP.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Tom, VA
    Posts
    4,362
    Absolutely. And I wouldn't try to make the case that the 45 ACP is anywhere near as good a hunting cartridge as the 10 mm Auto, The 10 mm is hands down the superior hunting round. It's just this fluke, one powder, one bullet weight, and the coincidence that the OP asked about this combination, that I find interesting. I think it's a bit astounding that the 45 ACP could make such a showing. But in the meantime, if I hunt with a short barreled handgun, I'll use my 4-5/8" Ruger BH in 41 Rem Mag! (I like the 170 gr. Sierra at 1700 fps.)

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    686
    It depends on what your definition of "on he heels" is. Warm 10mm loads are always going to have the edge on higher velocities but 45 ACP isn't too far behind.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Groo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    799
    Groo here
    The orginal 45 loading by JMB was a 200 gr Fmj at 900fps.
    The army wanted more penatration [ for stoping horse charges] and increases the weight to 231gr at 830fps + - 20 fps.
    Very close to the 45 goverment [aka sheffeld 230 gr at 800 from a 7 in barrel] loaded for use on all revolvers.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check