A question for you 10 mm users.

[tazman]

I like the idea of a 10mm in a 1911 type longslide pistol. I have never shot a 10mm handgun of any type.
How much recoil difference is there between a standard 45acp full power load and a 10mm full power load in the 1911?
The reason I ask is, due to arthritis in my hands and wrists, I am somewhat recoil sensitive. I can handle loads up to 357 magnum in a 686 and 45acp in my 1911 pistols without issue, but not much if any heavier loads. I don't know where the felt recoil of a 10mm load in a 1911 falls in comparison. I certainly don't need to waste money finding out if your experiences can help me.
Thanks for your input.
tazman

[BigAl52]

Tazman
If you can handle a 357 and 45 acp I don't see any issue with a 10 mm especially in a long slide. That gun should be heavy enough to dissipate felt recoil. I have a 10mm in a Rock Island and I don't mind shooting it at all. I think its close to 45 acp. I'm not sure what barrel length of 686 you have but the big 158 and 180 grain loads there should be close to the 10. If you can handle those I don't think you would be wasting your money. Just my .02 cents worth. Al

[lefty o]

its snappier. something im no longer a big fan of since the arthritis wrecked my wrists. id certainly try one before buying if its possible it may not be friendly to your body.

[Boolit_Head]

My 45 1911 was flippier but the 10mm Glock I have is more recoil into the hand. Hard to describe the 45 flipped up and then down quickly making it hard to reaquire. The 10mm was more like a upward and rearward recoil like a normal gun. My Glock was very sharp and snappy when I got it when it was introduced. I picked up a Harts recoil reducer and it took some of the sharp snap out of the recoil especially when it was empty. It was easy to tell the difference when the gun was full or empty. Realistically today the 10mm is so downloaded from when it was introduced if you plan on using factory ammo go with the 40 cal. Especially if you are recoil sensitive due to arthritis in the hand.

[9.3X62AL]

Boolit Head called it correctly. The original 10mm Auto ballistics by Norma Projectilfabrik ran a 200 grain bullet at 1225-1250 FPS. These were the Colt-Breaker loads that did in the 1911/Delta Elite platforms over time. The Bren Ten and the S&W 10-series pistols can manage such loads, but the most powerful loadings that Colt and Glock 10mms should fire are the Winchester Silvertips, which launch a 175 grain bullet in the 1240-1280 FPS realm. Most makers' loads now run a 180 grain bullet in the 1125-1150 FPS range. Federal makes one load that runs a 180 grain bullet at 1030 FPS, which is just a short gain on the 40 S&W. This is the "FBI Lite" loading.

The recoil impulse of 10mm WWSTHPs seems subjectively about 20% more intense than that from a 45 ACP shooting hardball. FWIW. My 40 S&Ws run 180 grain bullets 925-950 FPS.

[ReloaderFred]

I have 10mm pistols in Colt Delta Elite, S&W 1006, Tanfoglio Witnesses (both full size and compact) and a 10mm revolver, which is a 6" S&W Model 610, and I have a 10mm AR Carbine. I also have .45's in all those platforms, except for the carbine. Fully loaded 10mm with 180 to 200 gr. bullets are snappier than the .45 acp with 230 gr. full power loads. They are also much louder than the .45 acp.

If you're really recoil sensitive, then I'd suggest shooting the 10mm in the platform you prefer before buying one, if possible.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Petrol & Powder]

I don't currently play in the 10mm sandbox but I'm with Al; once you start down-loading the 10mm, you get into 40 S&W territory pretty quickly.

The 10mm is capable of launching a bullet that is heavier than most .357 mag bullets at speeds that approach or meet .357 mag velocities; so there is an energy advantage to be had. Plus, as a rimless casing that headspaces on the case mouth, it was a pistol cartridge as opposed to a rimmed revolver cartridge, from the beginning.

The 10mm (with the right load) can offer a lot of energy in a semi-auto pistol. However, unless you really need all of that energy in a pistol, it doesn't offer much that can't also be accomplished in a revolver. The cost for all of that energy is noise, recoil and wear on the pistol. The noise is not to be underestimated.
Don't get me wrong here, the 10mm can take the pistol platform to some impressive levels.
However, you don't need all of that power to punch holes in paper or ring steel. When we start adding long slides to 10mm pistols, we are probably getting out of the carry gun realm and into the target gun world. In the target gun world, we don't need a 180 grain bullet travelling at 1200 fps. And by the way, you can exceed that energy in a 41 Magnum.

I understand why the 10mm was developed and it's a good concept to extract a LOT of power from rimless pistol cartridge fired in a semi-auto pistol. Having shot the old Delta Elite back in the late 1980's and the Glock model 20 more recently, I can say it's not a concept that appeals to me.

Tazman, I'm not sensitive to recoil and I can't tell you if a long slide 10mm pistol would be acceptable to you. I can say that a 10mm Delta Elite with full power loads produces a noticeable amount of recoil and a LOT of noise! If I wanted a lot of muzzle energy in a semi-auto pistol, the 10mm is the way to go. As a self-defense tool that I practice with, I don't want a 10mm. As a target gun, I don't see a need for all of that power. YMMV

[44MAG#1]

I havent shot a 1911 10MM with FULL power loads. I now have a Ruger 1911 10MM. I have shot Buffalo Bore FULL power loads 180gr. in my Glock M20. They arent bad. Of course that is a "relative" term.
So you reload? If so modify your loads and maybe use the heavier loads sparingly.
That is what many do with other calibers so what would be wrong with doing that to the 10?

[tazman]

Petrol & Powder
I believe you have summed up the argument for and against the 10mm as well as could be.
I was not considering this for a carry gun or even a hunting gun. I was thinking more for fun and the longer slide.
I think I may look into a longslide in 45acp or even 9mm which would serve my purpose and usage better.
Thank you all for your input.

[Eagle59]

Sig Elite ammo has 180 grain @1250 ft/sec. There is still some good factory ammo being produced. Underwood has a lot of good rounds for the 10mm too.

[Boolit_Head]

If you reload it you can achieve the full potental. I used to load up some 180 grain gold dots with a max load of Blue dot and in a 10 inch barrel contender they would pick up some extra fps over what the books listed. Mean whitetail load in the contender and in my Glock they were quite a handful and a show. I think even the load books are downgraded some these days so check against the older books to see what they had.

[Petrol & Powder]

.........
I was not considering this for a carry gun or even a hunting gun. I was thinking more for fun and the longer slide.
I think I may look into a longslide in 45acp or even 9mm which would serve my purpose and usage better.
.......

OK, so with self-defense carry and hunting off the table, we are left with target work.
I don't think the 10mm has a lot to offer in that area that couldn't be met by another cartridge and with less powder/lead/blast/recoil/etc.

In the pistol arena, which appears where you want to be, there are some fine 9mm and 45 ACP choices.

The all steel CZ-75 is a fine gun and capable of excellent accuracy. I had an older "out of the box" Kimber 1911 that was just as accurate as an acquaintances' Les Baer.

Sometimes putting some money/time into used but well made gun pays off. I have a Star Super B that needed some attention but is now a very good shooter. A well fitted 1911 or Browning Hi-Power will often reward its owner with outstanding accuracy. I've seen some excellent S&W 645 pistols (although most owners will not part with theirs) and there are some old all steel European 9mm pistols out there that will shoot!

[9.3X62AL]

The 10mm is not for everyone. The "180 grain-class bullet at 1225-1250 FPS" is as much as I want in a full-size carry gun like my Glock 20SF, and is a bit over-the-top in my Glock 29SF sub-compact. In the compact pistol realm, I really like the Glock 23 (40 S&W). It is my most-carried CCW sidearm. The 9mm--once the 147 grain JHP sub-sonic loads came into vogue--became for me a paper puncher and small varmint whacker. If you are using 35 caliber bullets, they need to be running 1200 FPS with controlled expansion at minimum, or weigh at least 158 grains and be made of soft lead.

[country gent]

I have 1911s in 38 spl, 38 super, 10mm and 45 acp.
The 38spl is a 6 " barrel in a 5"slide hand built and very accurate ( wadcutters only) soft shooting and really a lot of fun.
The 38 super is a 5" gun and is easier shooting than the 10 or 45 perfoms really well all around. Very accurate pistol. Its nice shooting as far as report and recoil. Powder and lead ges a long ways in this cartridge also. It is easy to load for. Upper end loads push on 357 loads performance
The 10mm is a colt delta elite 5" with 4 digit serial number. Good shooting and accurate. recoil is snappy and heavier than the others. I also find with upper end loads I chase brass more than the other 3.
The 45s are 5" 4" and 3" recoil isn't bad in them accuracy is good to exceptional. The 3" Kimber ultra carry shoots better than most 5" do. Brass stays close last forever and is easy to find.

In a 6" long slide a the 10mm shouldn't be to hard on you other than the snappyness. A long slide 45 is great shooting and easy to handle ( Ive shot a couple). Even more "user friendly" and easy shooting would be a 38 super long slide. Set up with a supported chamber appropriate recoil spring, 6" slide and barrel it would be an Ideal target plinking and all around pistol. Light loads ( The AMU played with it loaded down with wadcutters for bullseye shooting with good results) for most uses. mid range to upper end for any hunting of small game varmits or odds and ends. Upper end loads can make major for ipsic and other combat style competition.
If recoil is an issue another route is a 6" barrel in a 5" slide contoured block on barrel and magna ported thru block. A friend had one set up like this in 45 acp and it was very soft on recoil and muzzle flip, accurate out past 50 yds and just a great pin gun.
Its surprising how much the 1" added to the sight radious improved shootability, not accuracy that's a function of the skill and fitting of the pistol. But the actual useability of the pistol.

[DocSavage]

I have a Ruger in 10mm and one of the things I tried was having a flat bottom firing pin stop installed and that helps slow the slide down and reduces felt recoil to some extent and if you reload it will keep your brass from launching into the next county. The part was from EGW and cost me $20 to be fitted.

[ss30378]

I have the 10mm ruger 1911 and a glock longslide with a threaded barrel and compensator. Even with 220gr bullets at over 1200fps recoil isnt any worse than a hot 180gr 357 load out of my heavy blackhawk. I fitted a flat bottom fps and a 26lb spring in the 1911 and I have a 24lb spring and a 3 port comp in the long slide. Recoil is more noticeable with the 220s loaded "warm" than 180s loaded "very warm".

[Bigslug]

Taz,

I've pretty much reverted back to the .45 ACP for most of my big bore auto chores, but perhaps another way to look at it:

While the 10mm may be snappier than a .45, and not as hard/flat shooting as some of the magnum revolvers, it is safe to say that it is harder and flatter shooting than a .45 and not as snappy as many of the magnum revolvers. You do have that spring in there cushioning things down that the wheelguns do not have. It is kind of neat having your 25 and 100 yard sight pictures be pretty much the same. In that context, there's nothing wrong with ".41 Light".

[Outer Rondacker]

My 10mm has more pop then my 45s. I also feel the 10mm more in the back of my hand. I have some loads that mimic the 40 short and wimpy. I shoot 250-350 45s whenever I take one out. I only shoot 100 10mm and my hand feels the same. To be honest some times I do not make it past 50.

[Ramjet-SS]

Like any semi auto the spring rate and heft of the slide help mitagate some of the felt recoil. I shoot mostly 200 grain GC cast WFN from my Model 40 and Longslide 1911 10mm handguns. I think they are very close to perceived recoil as shooting +P 230 grain from 5" 45 ACP. I actually put a 7" KKM barrel on model 40 Glock MOS and just love shooting it. Great velocity great accuracy and optimizes the 10mm in a handgun.

[RJM52]

If it is going to be for the range, no reason to waste the extra lead...just shoot a lighter bullet. I have a PARA-USA Elite LS Hunter that Remington now markets as their Hunter Model and it is an excellent shooter. Bullets in the 155-165 weight class at 1200+ fps don't kick near as hard as the those in the 180-220 class. One of my most accurate loads is the Berry's plated 155 TC hollow base at 1250 fps...and from the longslide it is very manageable.

Kimber just brought out a 6" also. I have two of their 5" Stainless Target IIs and they are VERY accurate. There are a couple of dealers on GunBroker selling them for less than $900 delivered... The Remington can be had for about a grand. After that it is $1200 and up for a longslide 10mm...

I think you will enjoy it....

Bob