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Thread: Wikipedia - Winchester 50-110?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master


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    Wikipedia - Winchester 50-110?

    While my computer is completing its weekly "Total Maintenance" series of applications I have been digitally "thumbing through" my unorganized downloads folder. I was reading Wikipedia's web page on Winchester 50-110 rifles and ammunition. The final sentence of its web history is a humdinger. Not only does it make sense to my mind, it is also among the most bizarre tidbits of information I have read - that is not political. The web page is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50-110_Winchester.

    Here is the final sentence. Emphasis is mine.
    Also in more modern guns like the new browning 1886 71 Winchester and the new 1886 Winchesters made in Japan are capable of much higher pressures and the 50–110 WCF can achieve up to 6,000 foot pounds of energy.


    Who has created these "elephant killer" handloads? . . .Anyone? . . . Bueller? How do they compare with basic cartridge case variations such as: 450 Alaskan (Fuller version more reliable feeder); 50 Alaskan; 510 Kodiak Express; and 475 Turnbull?

    Since the 475 Turnbull was created to be used in gunsmithed modern Winchester reproduction 1886 rifles that Mr. Turnbull rates as accepting 40,000-42,000 psi, with quicker twist than the Winchester 1886 50-110 Express version and longer cartridge case it appears to be able to safely match bullet and ballistics of late nineteenth- and early twentieth- century British double rifles intended for elephant hunting.

    I understand that no one needs such a package. I understand that creating ammunition for such a package will be neither easy nor significantly superior to the others in my third paragraph beyond 100 yards. Dedicated tinkerers should be able to kvetch out the last drops of power for closer range hunting. The essential reason to test the package is: "It'll be fun."
    It’s so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don’t say it. Sam Levinson

  2. #2
    Boolit Master MOA's Avatar
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    Ya, my mind just naturally tends to flo down those kind of streams too! Just for the fun of it.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphtali View Post
    While my computer is completing its weekly "Total Maintenance" series of applications I have been digitally "thumbing through" my unorganized downloads folder. I was reading Wikipedia's web page on Winchester 50-110 rifles and ammunition. The final sentence of its web history is a humdinger. Not only does it make sense to my mind, it is also among the most bizarre tidbits of information I have read - that is not political. The web page is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50-110_Winchester.

    Here is the final sentence. Emphasis is mine.
    Also in more modern guns like the new browning 1886 71 Winchester and the new 1886 Winchesters made in Japan are capable of much higher pressures and the 50–110 WCF can achieve up to 6,000 foot pounds of energy.


    Who has created these "elephant killer" handloads? . . .Anyone? . . . Bueller? How do they compare with basic cartridge case variations such as: 450 Alaskan (Fuller version more reliable feeder); 50 Alaskan; 510 Kodiak Express; and 475 Turnbull?

    Since the 475 Turnbull was created to be used in gunsmithed modern Winchester reproduction 1886 rifles that Mr. Turnbull rates as accepting 40,000-42,000 psi, with quicker twist than the Winchester 1886 50-110 Express version and longer cartridge case it appears to be able to safely match bullet and ballistics of late nineteenth- and early twentieth- century British double rifles intended for elephant hunting.

    I understand that no one needs such a package. I understand that creating ammunition for such a package will be neither easy nor significantly superior to the others in my third paragraph beyond 100 yards. Dedicated tinkerers should be able to kvetch out the last drops of power for closer range hunting. The essential reason to test the package is: "It'll be fun."
    I have had the idea to do this for quite some time! My gunsmith has said that she is quite confident that the miruko rifles would do that and more!
    A rifle builder at a gun show had an 1885 clone chambered input 50-110 that he loaded with smokeless. His claim was 2300fps with a 570 grain bullet!!!! He was currently working on an 1886 build for the same.
    I really am looking forward to hearing discussion on this!!

    Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Now this looks to be a fun thread.I`ll saddle up and go along for the ride.
    Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
    Leo
    People never lie so much as after a hunt,during a war,or before an election.
    Otto von Bismarck

  5. #5
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    I shoot the .45-120 Sharps in a converted Browning B-78 with 420 gr. bullets at close to 2,300 fps, with smokeless powder. My rifle has a 1" octagon barrel, and it will jar your fillings, so I can only imagine what the .50-110 would be like with a much heavier bullet. I think I'll just stick with my little Sharps.....

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReloaderFred View Post
    I shoot the .45-120 Sharps in a converted Browning B-78 with 420 gr. bullets at close to 2,300 fps, with smokeless powder. My rifle has a 1" octagon barrel, and it will jar your fillings, so I can only imagine what the .50-110 would be like with a much heavier bullet. I think I'll just stick with my little Sharps.....

    Fred
    Haha!!! "Little Sharps "!!!!!!
    What smokeless are you using?
    Those are amazing numbers!

    Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Good evening
    We have a 50 Alaskan in a 1886 (jap) with the 26"octagon barrel. This was a 45-70 bored and chambered by JES.
    We have fired a 525 gc at a cronographed 1857 fps using 52 grains of H4198. Also loaded up to 55 grains which was still as accurate but not cronographed.
    The rifle showed no signs of stress. No hard ejection. Only issue I saw as the shooter was the recoil. But then I am a small 150 pounder. Not sure if I would want to touch off a 525 grainer at 2000 fps.

    The 50-110 case is longer. More powder space. We did not try seating out to the 1st grease groove which would be near the same length of the 50-110 which could easily change capacity and maybe the use of a slower powder.
    This thread should be interesting to read as things get loaded up.
    Mike in Peru
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwtebay View Post
    Haha!!! "Little Sharps "!!!!!!
    What smokeless are you using?
    Those are amazing numbers!

    Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk
    I'm using IMR 4895, with Super Grex for a case filler. Most people will shoot it one time and then hand it back. When I offer them another round, they politely decline.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Jedman's Avatar
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    There are several guys on the Graybeard forum who have taken 32" barreled buffalo classic handi rifles and sent them to JES and had them rebored and chambered to 50-140.
    I don't remember who went the farthest with smokeless loads but at some point the recoil was the limit.
    It is a huge cartridge and can produce big energy without going to hi in the pressure.
    I would think most sporting rifles would not hold up to a steady diet of a cartridge like that as stocks crack and things break with that level of recoil.
    It all is fun and games until someone detaches there retinas.

    Jedman

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    .50-110 is the express load for the .50-100. I have a box of .50-110-350s in my collection.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master Tatume's Avatar
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    For comparison, Buffalo Bore advertises 50 Alaskan ammo making up to 4000 ft. lbs. energy with a 525 grain bullet at 1850 fps. To make 6000 ft. lbs. with that bullet would require 2270 fps. That is somewhat higher than the 458 Lott shooting a 500 grain bullet at 2300 fps, for 5870 ft. lbs.

    The 460 Weatherby cartridge handily exceeds these levels, with a 500 grain bullet at almost 7000 ft. lbs. and a 600 grain bullet at 8000 ft. lbs. energy. I would imagine chamber pressures are in the vicinity of 60,000 PSI.

    I cannot imagine shooting cartridges with these energy levels in a Model 1886 rifle!

    Some years ago I was asked to evaluate 720 grain bullets in the 458 Win Mag. The maximum I achieved was 1765 fps in a Ruger No. 1. rifle. This gives 4980 ft. lbs. energy, and I can assure you I didn't shoot very many. I still have a small supply of those bullets, and no intention of shooting them!
    Last edited by Tatume; 04-07-2018 at 08:22 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphtali View Post
    While my computer is completing its weekly "Total Maintenance" series of applications I have been digitally "thumbing through" my unorganized downloads folder. I was reading Wikipedia's web page on Winchester 50-110 rifles and ammunition. The final sentence of its web history is a humdinger. Not only does it make sense to my mind, it is also among the most bizarre tidbits of information I have read - that is not political. The web page is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50-110_Winchester.

    Here is the final sentence. Emphasis is mine.
    Also in more modern guns like the new browning 1886 71 Winchester and the new 1886 Winchesters made in Japan are capable of much higher pressures and the 50–110 WCF can achieve up to 6,000 foot pounds of energy.


    Who has created these "elephant killer" handloads? . . .Anyone? . . . Bueller? How do they compare with basic cartridge case variations such as: 450 Alaskan (Fuller version more reliable feeder); 50 Alaskan; 510 Kodiak Express; and 475 Turnbull?

    Since the 475 Turnbull was created to be used in gunsmithed modern Winchester reproduction 1886 rifles that Mr. Turnbull rates as accepting 40,000-42,000 psi, with quicker twist than the Winchester 1886 50-110 Express version and longer cartridge case it appears to be able to safely match bullet and ballistics of late nineteenth- and early twentieth- century British double rifles intended for elephant hunting.

    I understand that no one needs such a package. I understand that creating ammunition for such a package will be neither easy nor significantly superior to the others in my third paragraph beyond 100 yards. Dedicated tinkerers should be able to kvetch out the last drops of power for closer range hunting. The essential reason to test the package is: "It'll be fun."


    ahhhhhh thank you, but no. not only no, but hell no.

    51 caliber is good for is the 500 linebaugh. oh wait a minute, i have one in tc encore with a 24" MGM barrel. hs-6 and 460gr lfn gc is all i need. i'll go with 2400(alliant) cuz it shoots so well. i have no need to "fill her up", just nice and easy load that goes about 1200-1300fps.
    Last edited by HATCH; 04-07-2018 at 12:45 PM.

  13. #13
    Boolit Mold
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    My 50 2 1/2 Sharps pushes a 515 grain bullet at 1400 fps and kills moose with aplomb! Can't imagine needing anything over that. I don't feel under gunned even when facing a "big brown furry things" here in Alaska! The recoil isn't over powering either. Jim
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails JIM'S BULL 02-1.JPG  
    Last edited by jdb3; 04-07-2018 at 07:37 PM.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    well, I was going to upload a picture of my 50 - 100 - 450, but it won't let my file upload. Any suggestions?

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    well, I was going to upload a picture of my 50 - 100 - 450, but it won't let my file upload. Any suggestions?
    take the picture with yr phone -- email it to yrself - file it - attach it -- all good ......the phone to computer transfer resizes it down so it posts here easy - dunno how this works but you still have reasonable detail in the posted picture ---- this would not be the right way to do this (just gettin that in before the experts come at me) but it works

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    Hmmm.... still not going. Anyone mind me emailing this to him and trying?

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    Hmmm.... still not going. Anyone mind me emailing this to him and trying?
    to me ???? ok if you like
    joe

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Fun to watch someone else shoot those huge loads .I'm old enough to say no thanks .a 458 win mag was more than enough for me after three rounds .

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    to me ???? ok if you like
    joe
    Aarons 50-110 pic Click image for larger version. 

Name:	aaron 50 -110.jpg 
Views:	134 
Size:	46.3 KB 
ID:	218622 ?

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    50-110 picture from Aaron

    File too big I think
    4.4 meg when it hit my mailbox - was a bit lost with this
    1)I opened it with MS office picture manager
    2)select Picture from the top menu bar
    3)on the right side menu box "compress pictures" used the document button to resize - that made it 300kb or some there

    I have a samsung phone (cheap model) setup for internet and if I take the picture with my phone then email it to myself on the computer it does all this stuff so the gun pic is small enough to use on the forum - I think the limit is 400kb per picture ? - The interesting thing is the resize still has decent picture quality if it was a good clear one to begin with.
    joe

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