???? Small ring mauser questions

[toallmy]

I have always wanted to put a new barrel on a rifle , but I usually work out a decent shooting load and this stops me from doing it . Hopefully this will happen again with my new project , but only time will tell . I have a lot of questions about changing the barrel on mauser small ring receivers - I suspect a few gentlemen here may have done this in the past . For a wile I have been doing a little research on this , so now I'm really confused . It seems to simple to think I can just purchase a pre threatened short chamber barrel , screw it in the receiver , then finish the chamber to headspace it correctly . Is that kinda all it is to it ?

[LAGS]

Yes , you can remove the barrel and replace it with a Pre threaded short chambered barrel, set the headspace and you are ready to go.
But there are really a few more things that should be checked along the way.
Like the Bolt Lug engagement, maybe Lapping the Bolt lugs in, firing pin Protrusion, safety engagement, Trigger engagement or polishing the bolt Guides.
All these things can be done yourself, but may require an investment in a few more tools.
This is why many people shy away from someones Home Built Guns.
They do not know the Skill Level or the amount of experience and Knowledge of the builder.
So are you truly getting a rifle that is set up properly , and Fitted Correctly for all the effort you went thru to change the barrel and get maximum performance or Safety
This isn't like just putting a spare tire on a car.
There are things that need to be checked, especially on Old Guns, and ones that may not be the original parts.
And even so, other parts wear too, not just the barrel.

[toallmy]

I have never looked inside the front end of a receiver with the barrel removed , let alone lapping the lugs but it all seems doable . I looked into tools , it seems like I could rent just about anything I would need or just might need to pick up a action wrench and barrel vice . At this point it's just a thought , but very interesting .

[Texas by God]

It's doable and enjoyable. And this is the place to be for good advice from folks who do it a lot. What is your new project? We love pics.

[LAGS]

I would say that about 60% of the Mauser Receivers that I have rebarreled, especially the older softer Small Rings (with the exception of most of the Sweed's) the bolt lugs were not in Full contact, or one lug only was making contact.
Plus a lot of them had Lug Set Back.
Those conditions and be deceptive on setting the headspace.
IE
If you have a bolt that is only getting contact on one bolt lug, and you set the headspace.
If that one sets back because of a more powerful caliber, or it just wears in, the headspace can increase down the road.
Setting up the rifle action correctly will give you many more years of service, and sometimes, improper bolt lug seating can effect accuracy.

[toallmy]

Incoming on Tuesday - I'll be the proud owner of a small ring mauser chambered in 7x57 that I intend to shoot cast boolits out of exclusively . A member hear is sending me a sample of nicely over sized boollits to try , that he has been achieving good results with . After a good try as is , the other option is a new barrel , I have always wanted to do that anyway . When I get it I will put up some pictures , as of now I only know it's a small ring with the gas hole on the left of the receiver / no cut out for thumb on left side , I will remove the scope mount and chopped wood looking for identifying marks as soon as I receive it .

[toallmy]

I have read many of the threads and post that you gentlemen have been involved in , that has inspired me to at least consider it . Until a couple years ago I thought rebarrling your own rifle was vodo or witchcraft , that was to be left to the professional's , several months waiting several hundred dollars and it might be more accurate , or not .

[wmitty]

Rebarreled my M93 and I shortened the size die to allow case to fit the chamber. I liked the chamber as it was cut and don't use factory ammunition anyway so saved the rental on a finish reamer.

[toallmy]

I think that is a good idea wmitty , in most of my cast Boolit loading I would be better off with less case volume . I have so many questions I hardly know where to start . But here is one I haven't found the answer to yet . I have the basic understanding of how to finish the chamber but does that throat the barrel in front of the neck , and are there options on the length of throat before actually getting into the rifling ? There is a big difference in a little 120 gr bullet or a 160 gr Boolit .

[john.k]

A basic chamber reamer will finish the throat to standard specs.Your "short chambered" barrel will have such a chamber.......Separate chamber and throat reamers is custom gunsmithing not normally expected on a surplus Spanish 93.

[toallmy]

Got it , I guess the start is to give the old rifle a thrashing with a cleaning brush , then check function , and safety . Seams fun .

[mpkunz]

If you want to do Mausers, and I love Mausers, I would recommend the Ronald Walsh book on the Mauser rifles. I bought it 20 years ago and followed its very simple instructions with my then high school age son Josh. We built him a .30-'06 following the chapters presented in the Walsh book and around 2005 he used that rifle to win his first competition, shooting against high end custom Remington 700 actions and whatever else was available at the time. He put 5 consecutive rounds onto the steel at 1,836 yards and won the competition (I know not where) and gained his first commercial sponsor. Today he runs Patriot Valley Arms and himself builds custom rifles that win over and over again. Last November 5th I took a mule deer in Montana with a 6.5 Creedmoor built on a Rem 700 action that he built for me - at 883 yards, a lifetime long range best for me.

[toallmy]

Mpkunz wile cruising the archives , I found a down loadable version of the book by Ronald Walsh The Mauser Rifle that a member shared with us .

[toallmy]

I understand the small ring receiver , does not have the shoulder inside of the receiver - the barrel stops on the front of the receiver , the bolt lugs hold the cartridge into the chamber and if probably fit - the lugs will both make contact with the back of the recess cut when a go gage is inserted . OK what do you do when they don't ( Is this what is called lug set back ) I think this is corrected by removing a small amount from the back of the barrel or the front of the receiver . I understand if you take a bit off the back of the barrel you must take that much off of in front of the threaded area as well but how do you know when the barrel is screwed in the proper distance ? Does it contact the bolt face ?????? As you gentlemen have probably noticed I am lacking in both the understanding of the interior workings of a mauser action , and the ability to ask the proper questions . So I'm gonna ask the question as I would if you were sitting at the kitchen table with me - when you screw that barrel in does it hit something so you know that's where it is suppose to be .

[john.k]

You answer your own question,then ask it again.The dimensions come from the barrel taken out...this is the only reliable indicator,unless you have prior experience with the particular type of action.As to the LH lug making contact,this is to protect the extractor from damage in dry working the bolt,as army types are prone to do in training.When the rifle was made in the factory,dimensions were taken from the design drawings,as is the case in any precision machining operation.

[John 242]

Here's what I understand and my attempt to answer your questions to the best of my ability. I highly recommend that you don't trust me, or anyone else blindly without cross checking or seeking expert advise.

I understand the small ring receiver , does not have the shoulder inside of the receiver - the barrel stops on the front of the receiver

Correct, the 93s, 95s, 96s do not have an inner barrel torque shoulder. The shoulder on the threaded shank butts up against the face of the receiver.

... the bolt lugs hold the cartridge into the chamber and if probably fit - the lugs will both make contact with the back of the recess cut when a go gage is inserted... OK what do you do when they don't

Some people will use lapping compound and spring loaded tool to increase the bolt's locking lug contact. This can have unwanted consequences. Lapping compound doesn't lap the lugs square (perpendicular) to the receiver. Lapping removes metal from the receiver as well as the bolt and too much lapping can cause damage. Kuhnhausen calls for 95% contact, but if your lugs are way out of wack, don't try to lap them to get 95% contact. Something else is not right.

Another way (better?) to ensure both lugs make contact is to machine the rear of the bolt's locking lugs on a lathe with a bolt jig. As I understand it, Mauser bolts are case hardened and that hardening varies in thickness. If you lap or cut through that hardening, you'll increase wear on the locking lugs.

Lapping or facing the locking lugs increases headspace and the barrel needs to be set back (adjusted rearwards) accordingly.

( Is this what is called lug set back )[?]

Locking lug set back can occur at the spot where the bolt's locking lugs contact the receiver under recoil. The bolt/receiver lug engagement surface is beaten backwards (battered, displaced, peened) by the locking lugs, causing shallow depressions. This can happen over decades of shooting, can happen quickly if subjected to higher than normal pressures, or not at all. A soft receiver may show set back with standard loads. Kuhnhausen says .002 of set back is the max allowable and lists several reasons at to why. Normal burnishing and wear is okay. More wear on the top or bottom can indicate one lug is making more contact than the other. You can only see (and measure) this with the barrel off and looking down from the face of the receiver at the 12:00 and 6:00 o'clock positions.

I think this is corrected by removing a small amount from the back of the barrel or the front of the receiver.

No. Removing material from the shoulder of the threaded shank moves the breach face backwards and decreases headspace and the barrel shank gets closer to the FRONT of the locking lugs. Same thing happens if you remove material from the face of the receiver.

I understand if you take a bit off the back of the barrel you must take that much off of in front of the threaded area as well but how do you know when the barrel is screwed in the proper distance ?Does it contact the bolt face ?

No. See above. Measure from the face of the receiver to the FRONT face of the split locking lug. Subtract .005 (a few thou. for clearance and crush) from that number and that is your threaded shank length. Another option is to use the numbers listed in several different books. My books shows the threaded shank length should be a nominal .645-inch.

As you gentlemen have probably noticed I am lacking in both the understanding of the interior workings of a mauser action , and the ability to ask the proper questions . So I'm gonna ask the question as I would if you were sitting at the kitchen table with me - when you screw that barrel in does it hit something so you know that's where it is suppose to be .

Yes, the shoulder of threaded shank hits the face of the receiver. There is clearance between the front face of the recoil lug and the rear of the barrel (see above).

I hope this helps. Please bear in mind that this is how I understand these rifles work and how they work. These are the best to answer I can give, based on how I understand your questions. I may be wrong and/or there may be a better way of doing things. If I am wrong, I hope someone will point out my errors so we can both learn.

The are a few things I skipped over and a few I've probably forgotten. I highly recommend picking up a copy of "The Mauser M91 Through M98" by Jerry Kuhnhausen. Although not perfect, it's a great place to start for Mauser info.

[ulav8r]

Mpkunz wile cruising the archives , I found a down loadable version of the book by Ronald Walsh The Mauser Rifle that a member shared with us .

Searched for that post. The search found 17 threads but no link to the book.

[john.k]

before doing anything with an early Mauser ,consider this.......for ease of production,the chamber is cut shorter than the case,so the extractor cut of the case is unsupported....If you have a blowout from the primer pocket,gas will inflate the ring ,resulting in a monumental blowup.This is the whole reason for the "partition " in the 98 action.....escaping gas is directed to the right ,blowing the extractor thru the ring,without harm to a right handed firer....

[toallmy]

It is slowly sinking in , but I think I'm getting a grasp of how it all goes together . I appreciate you gentlemen taking the time to work with me on understanding the inter workings , and how it all goes together .

[toallmy]

Does the hole in the left side of the receiver , vent the escaping gas on some small ring receivers also ?