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Thread: 100 year old rifle question

  1. #21
    Boolit Master



    atr's Avatar
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    my "philosophy" is: if its shoot-able,,,,then shoot it...
    otherwise why have it ?
    Death to every foe and traitor and hurrah, my boys, for freedom !

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    They say ladies of the evening are only too ready to lure respectable women into a lifestyle which has seldom proven entirely satisfactory for them... But still, nobody at all advising you to keep it as it is, seems to go beyond that. Moderate use even with jacketed bullets and well chosen smokeless powder, which can be far less erosive than cordite, will leave it accurate long after you have gone where cash isn't negotiable.

    At the very least, thorough cleaning and displaying with less obtrusive rust protection seems in order. Maybe someone tossed a coin to decide whether to store it for use or stamp it "Drill purpose". But some of those rifles saw almost no shooting. Wouldn't you want to know?

    Parts interchangeability between factories wasn't guaranteed, and parts stamped "IE" and so on identify them. But often the parts work, with or without very simple alteration. Eddystones have the reputation of being the most liable to production faults, such as the cracking receiver rings. But my only P14 (sporterised as a heavy .300H&H, but it was really rough) was an Eddystone, and it was very sound. I think if you get a good one, you've got a good one.

    The aperture sight appears sometimes, probably described as for the P14, on www.ebay.co.uk , and there is no legal obstacle to exporting them. It won't be cheap, as they aren't making them any more. But it will probably be more variable, if you can wait around, than sights for the Lee-Enfields, which have more of a following. I think there is probably an almost identical version made by Alfred J. Parker, who split off from the company like Sam Goldwyn from MGM.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    I would shoot the P-17. I got my first Eddystone in 1963 for $7.50. I got a mint Winchester P-17 in 1967 while in college for $25 and then a low numbered ( 8,XXX serial number) Remington P-17 a few months later for $20.00. All are excellent and like my cast boolits.

    Adam

  4. #24
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    If you had some provenance for this Rifle making it worth more than another M1917 Eddystone without any provenance, then I'd consider not shooting it. Either way, I'd clean it up and store/care for it, like any other firearm you own.

    About 6 years ago, I bought 2 S&W revolvers (from the 1970s), the seller/collector claimed both were unfired and in the box with all the goodies. The seller had about a dozen various models of S&W revolvers in the same condition, I wish I had the funds to have bought them all...anyway, it was a most difficult decision to bring them to the range and heat them up...now, after the fact, I have no regrets.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
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  5. #25
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    There are precious few military rifles that just feel RIGHT when I shoulder them. The P14/M17 are on that short list.

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  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy



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    I would certainly clean her up and enjoy shooting. Didn't Remington use the M1917 action as the basis for the Model 30 ?

    rick

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumbeaux View Post
    I would certainly clean her up and enjoy shooting. Didn't Remington use the M1917 action as the basis for the Model 30 ?

    rick
    Yes they did. And A-Square built large bore African rifles using the 1917 action. It's a workhorse.

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by almostgone View Post
    I've got an almost 100 year old rifle, M1917 Eddystone barrel dated 4-18 and serial #is in that month. It was rearsenaled during WW2 at Odgen Arsenal and put in cosmoline. The rifle was prestine then and nothing appears to have been done to it other than inspection and cosmoline. It really looks like it's never been issued. I've had it about 20 years and it's still in the grease. My question is do I want to clean it up and shoot it with cast or should I just leave it in the grease and hand it down to posterity? It's not like I don't have other 30-06s to shoot. So what do I do? Appreciate any responses.
    I would say use it!! Since your in NC and its starting to get hot out!! LOL!! I would disassemble the rifle and wipe down as much of the cosmoline as possible. Then wrap up the barreled receiver and stock in paper towels and place in black plastic trash bags and place outside in the sun for several hours. You be surprised at the amount of grease, cosmoline and dirt that will ooze out of the stock and other parts. These rifles are fine to shoot if the barrel is good shape. I for one have placed several Match Parker Hale PH-5 rear sights on my M1917s and P14 for target shooting. I have always been surprised that the M1917 did not caught on in the US as a military target rifle.
    As far as your rifle is concerned, The WWII builds ranged widely from just an inspection and cleaning to a complete break down and overhaul. I have seen WWII rebuilds which have three rebuild stamps on the stock. If you reload they are great for light loads with a flat based bullet especially in the original 5 groove barrels. For some reason the original barrels do not like the boat tail match bullets. There is also a popular myth going around that the original M1917 used the same bore diameter as the earlier produced P14, that is not true! Is the Eddystone M1917 rare? Not really, Eddystone produced over a million rifles in the short span of US involvement in WWI.

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy
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    well I'm a shooter ......... so Id shoot it....LOL

  10. #30
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    Good afternoon
    I also write "Shoot it!" Some years ago we bought a brand new in the box Colt Police Positive Special (38 Special). Promptly took it out and fired 6 of our home brews to be sure it was shootable. One of the few revolvers we know for sure has never been contaminated with "jacketed things".
    If it had been a real collector piece that is different... But there are millions of P-17's...
    Mike in Peru
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master opos's Avatar
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    Love those old canons..I worked in a gun shop in the 50's while going to college....a 1917 in like new shape was about $25...we all made "deer rifles" out of them back then..I really put a lot of game on the table for our young family...today I have a 25-06 built on a 1917 Winchester that is a marvelous old rifle and 2 pristine Remingtons that sport their original dress.

    Cosmoline is your friend...I had a guy give me 2 old Mosins that were thick with cosmoline. I took them...wrapped them in disposable diapers...put the rifle in the diapers in a black trash bag and let it sit in my old Suburban for a few days in the hot desert sun we get on occasion...it worked well on most of the bad stuff and the rest got scrubbed off with laquer thinner. Don't get mad at the pictures of the 25-06...I didn't cut this one up...a tack driver with the Douglas barrel...

    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    The P14 and M1917 aren't the most portable or fast-moving military rifles in the world. It was designed around the lessons of the only large war in history in which the rifle was the dominant weapon. So it is big enough and strong enough to accommodate a cartridge not unlike the 7mm. Remington Magnum, and it was nowhere near as good as the Lee-Enfield at coping with the mud of Flanders. But it introduced a well-protected receiver sight, which has remained a feature of US military rifles to this day.

    Here are before and after pictures of my .300H&H, with the lightest of the straight tapered Shilen barrels, and the receiver modified for a small (i.e. non-Palma) Redfield receiver sight.


    Click image for larger version. 

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  13. #33
    Boolit Bub
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    Nice rifles! Yes they are stout

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy 55fairlane's Avatar
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    I would send me that rifle and I will give my 10-22 for trade.....omg I want one of those bad.......and yours is as new after rearsonal......omg.......

    Nice rifle

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by almostgone View Post
    I've got an almost 100 year old rifle, M1917 Eddystone barrel dated 4-18 and serial #is in that month. It was rearsenaled during WW2 at Odgen Arsenal and put in cosmoline. The rifle was prestine then and nothing appears to have been done to it other than inspection and cosmoline. It really looks like it's never been issued. I've had it about 20 years and it's still in the grease. My question is do I want to clean it up and shoot it with cast or should I just leave it in the grease and hand it down to posterity? It's not like I don't have other 30-06s to shoot. So what do I do? Appreciate any responses.
    I also vote to shoot the ole gal! However, a client of mine ended up with a complete Winnie Eddystone all cosmolined up and wrapped in some sort of oil cloth (muslin?) - he sold it and took his wife and son to Russia bear hunting on the proceeds.......
    What a wonderful conundrum for you to have!!

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  16. #36
    Boolit Master knifemaker's Avatar
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    You said you found a "OGEK" cartouche on the rifle. That would be for the Ogden, Utah arsenal and the EK may be for Elmer Keith who I believe worked for the Ogden arsenal during WW11. I am going from memory on this one and I may be mistaken. I am fairly sure that I read that he was a firearms inspector for the arsenal during WW11 when your rifle was repaired for re-issue.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by almostgone View Post
    Thank you All for your responses I really value your opinions. My inclination was towards cleaning and shooting, since I've got the urge to do something with it. I was looking to see if someone had a really good reason not to. I appreciate the tips on cleaning it up. It's curious that it appears to be more like grease than the cosmoline (Russian & chicom)I have run into in the past. I will take some before and after pics and hopefully learn how to post. So far all I've found is nice blued steel and a OGEK cartouche. Thank you
    I would be inclined to leave it in mothballs - as you say, you have other .30-06's, and when it comes to pieces of history, by definition, they aren't making them anymore.

    Also, that OGEK cartouche is, to my understanding, OGden Utah, Elmer Keith, which is certainly going to add some to the value.
    WWJMBD?

    In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.

  18. #38
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    Elmer Keith would clean it up and shoot it, after all it passed his inspection.

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  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumbeaux View Post
    I would certainly clean her up and enjoy shooting. Didn't Remington use the M1917 action as the basis for the Model 30 ?

    rick
    1917 Eddystone (with new Criterion barrel) and Remington Model 30 Express..........Attachment 217759
    "Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." - Ernest Hemingway

  20. #40
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by knifemaker View Post
    You said you found a "OGEK" cartouche on the rifle. That would be for the Ogden, Utah arsenal and the EK may be for Elmer Keith who I believe worked for the Ogden arsenal during WW11. I am going from memory on this one and I may be mistaken. I am fairly sure that I read that he was a firearms inspector for the arsenal during WW11 when your rifle was repaired for re-issue.
    OGEK is Elmer Keith ONLY IF there is a rectangle "box" around the initials otherwise it is not his stamp. OGEK without the rectangle "box" is Ed Klouser

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
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GC Gas Check