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Thread: Lake City .30 carbine oddball

  1. #1
    Boolit Master georgewxxx's Avatar
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    Lake City .30 carbine oddball

    A number of years ago, our gun club became affiliated with the CMP. We obtained M-1 rifles and carbines plus many cases of surplus ammo for both.

    During youth training with the carbines, we opened a new can with bandoleers of Lake city 69 dated ammo. While charging magazines, a very odd flat nosed showed up. Only one in that I noticed out of all the 1080rd cans we used up.

    The cartridge in question weighs 5 grains more than normal loaded one do, and you can see the ogive and nose are completely different. I wonder how much extra pressure that extra 5 grains would develop on firing. As you can see both rds have a bulge where the bottom of the bullet was seated not quite square with the case, probably not that uncommon with issue ammo.

    It's anyone guess as to how that bullet got mixed in with the regular ones at Lake City Ammunition Plant.
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    Last edited by georgewxxx; 03-31-2018 at 08:48 AM.
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    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    That is not an arsenal round, but somebody's hand load that got mixed in. Bullet profile looks like older Hornady softpoint, I'd pull it.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master georgewxxx's Avatar
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    No, I doubt a personal handload got mixed in with a sealed 1080 rd can loaded up in stripper clips and bandoliers that was issued at the Army Depot in Illinois.
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    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgewxxx View Post
    No, I doubt a personal handload got mixed in with a sealed 1080 rd can loaded up in stripper clips and bandoliers that was issued at the Army Depot in Illinois.
    All I can say is the Army and LC NEVER loaded a carbine bullet with that profile. Somebody is telling you a Sea Story...
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    And FWIW, Lake City is an Army Ammunition Plant (the AAP, at this time), not an Arsenal. A small point, granted, but words have meanings.

    Sorry, pet peeve of mine.
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    Boolit Master georgewxxx's Avatar
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    Point well taken, I made the change in my post.
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    Boolit Bub
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    If it came out of a sealed can of military ammo then I would suspect you have a round with a defective bullet that somehow slipped through inspection. I have found bad rounds over the years in various calibers at times. When I worked selling ammo at gun shows several years ago I actually had a small collection of defects discovered, often by pure chance, when looking over ammo out of new cases just arrived at our store. It happens in both military and commercial production, sometimes things just slip past the inspectors.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master georgewxxx's Avatar
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    The red sealant ring is still on the primer.
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    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Possibly might have been an FMJ bullet which was inverted somewhere in the forming process, missed inspection, was loaded and missed yet again. Very unlikely, but I have seen it happen the other way, finding a couple flatnosed FMJ rounds with exposed lead base in WRA .32-20 rounds.
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    Boolit Master
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    I've heard of a 130 gr steel core developed for better penetration of metal plate Japanese and Soviet body armor.

    Check to see if this round is magnetic.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master georgewxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Multigunner View Post
    I've heard of a 130 gr steel core developed for better penetration of metal plate Japanese and Soviet body armor.

    Check to see if this round is magnetic.
    You're idea was correct, it is magnetic.

    M-1 was never a long range cartridge, and that flat ogive would would make it hit with a tad more snort, but body armor?

    Like I said in my first post, it weighs 5 grains more than a regular round, you'd think if it had steel in it, it would be lighter. Also I just measured it in front of the case mouth and it's .306 verses .3065 of the others I've measured in that lot. Looking at all of them still in stripper clips, they show a slight bulge in the case where the bottom of the bullet is. We usually chastise people's loading cases with non-centered bullets when that happens.
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  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgewxxx View Post
    You're idea was correct, it is magnetic.

    M-1 was never a long range cartridge, and that flat ogive would would make it hit with a tad more snort, but body armor?

    Like I said in my first post, it weighs 5 grains more than a regular round, you'd think if it had steel in it, it would be lighter. Also I just measured it in front of the case mouth and it's .306 verses .3065 of the others I've measured in that lot. Looking at all of them still in stripper clips, they show a slight bulge in the case where the bottom of the bullet is. We usually chastise people's loading cases with non-centered bullets when that happens.
    Flat point bullets can penetrate angled sheet steel better than pointed or round nose bullets.
    The Japanese and the Soviets both fielded manganese steel plate body armor in limited quantities during WW2. The Japanese Air Commandos were equipped with it for suicide raids on airfields. The Soviets issued thousands of breastplates for riflemen and more elaborate and effective armor for sappers.
    Later the Soviets issued metal plates that fit into inside pockets of the standard great coat. These were fairly effective against the .45 ACP and German 9mm bullets at a fair distance.

    Thin skinned vehicles were another obstacle.

    I've seen very little information on this ammo. One source stated that the British developed it for use by occupation forces in Germany. It was supposed to have a bit higher velocity as well.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master georgewxxx's Avatar
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    The case is dated "69" so it wouldn't be Japan, but who knows how long that particular bullet or lot of bullets had been lying around waiting to get accidently loaded?

    Then you wonder how much the government loads up without any official notification to the public like all the ammo they had for the Bay Of Pigs debacle in Cuba and others.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check