Hum 45-70 vs the 450 Bushmaster (modern day)

[Outer Rondacker]

SO it is safe to say if one was buying a 450 BM it would be the RAR.

450 Marlin lets just ditch that. Same with the 458 Socom.

What would you pick for the 45-70? I love the look of the 1895 SBL. Stainless and lam wood. Big loop lever. I also like the H&R single shots but they are no longer making them. Bolt actions are less common. If one was shopping for a 45-70 in today's world what would you buy? (Ruger #1s are out). Even if you would shop for an used one what would it be?

[Jedman]

To me comparing the 45-70 to the 450 BM is the same argument that many claim to get 35 Rem. ballistics from a 357 Max. in both cases the larger sized cartridge holds about 40 % more powder and to get the smaller cartridge to get similar ballistics you have to load to much higher pressures and have a gun / action that can allow you to load to a over Saami length.
A close friend has a Ruger ARR in 450 BM and found a custom 350 gr. jacketed bullet that he can load very long in the ruger magazine with a near case full of AA 1680 it is very impressive !
That load would never work in a AR rifle but in the ruger with a strong bolt action it is safe and very accurate.

Jedman

[Ramjet-SS]

If you are talking a 45-70 repeater then there are several to choose from Henry, Winchester, Remlin, Chiappa , and several more.

Single shots Henry, TC Encore, and again many more. I like the Henry and the TC both have there virtues and limitations. You took the Number 1 out of the equation but that is the ultimate single shot 45-70 .

One of the reasons I like the 450 BM is the performance vs recoil I am no longer seeking the heavy recoil.

I agree the comparison of the 45-70 to the Bush Master is apples and oranges or Cuties to Navel oranges.

I say a man should have at least one of each.

[robg]

Bought a 45-70 I'm a Lefty and I prefer level action and flexibility of the old war horse.

[EDG]

450 BM Pro's
Quote

1. Shoots .452 projectiles
2. Uses less powder when reloaded
3. Velocity in the 2200fps Energy 2750 ish
4. Drop of 3.4 inches at 200 yards
5. Said to be less felt recoil

There are NO pros for the silly BM. The only reason it exists are people that cannot get out of the AR obsession mode.

.452 bullets are of no advantage
You can down load a 45-70 to 1000 fps.
The 45-70 can go faster at higher pressures in strong single shots and strong repeaters.
You better check your drop because it is not correct. Even so drop from what zero????
Recoil is dependent on weight of rifle , bullet and velocity.
A 12 lb 45-70 shooting light bullets at 1000 fps will have less recoil.

PS I have owned a 45-70 since 1972 and I have never fired a single Black powder round. The first 45-70 was a Siamese Mauser bolt gun.
Since then I have owned more 45-70s than you can count with 2 hands. If you hit your target you do not need a repeater.
There are other single shots besides the Ruger #1s and I prefer some of them over the #1.

[zymguy]

.452 projectile is an advantage if your already casting and sizing for it in 45 colt

[500Linebaughbuck]

One of the reasons I like the 450 BM is the performance vs recoil I am no longer seeking the heavy recoil.

i bought a handi-rifle in 45-70. (it was cheap and the guy needed money.) i don't need a 45-70 but i like big bore calibers.

i'm like you, i hate the recoil. but i reload. the 405gr fn going about 1300fps is a real nice load. i've had the 45-70 (marlin and 2 or 3 handis) but i sold them, young and dumb i was.

[redhawk0]

Let's see...the 45-70 has been around for over 100 years...the 450 BM is a short timer...in 100 years from now...will the 450 BM still be around...I don't know...but I'd bet the 45-70 will.

I love my 45-70.

redhawk

[RustyReel]

I don't see much justification for the 450BM, but I'm probably going to pick up a CVA Hunter in that caliber....just because. I also own a couple of 45/70's, a 458 Win Mag, 458 American, 458 SOCOM and a 450 Marlin. Download all of them. Gotta make sure I have a couple hundred cases for the BM and Marlin as I don't think either will be around long. Long as I'm going be here probably but whomever gets my stuff after I'm gone may have a problem!! (Truth be told, I don't think there is much justification for most of the calibers available today. But that's just me.)

[EDG]

That is only a what if as in what if I already cast for a .458?
Are you going to buy a BM just because of one bullet mold?

What if I already owned a closet full of 45-70s decades before the BM was ever a wet dream.

You cannot count the sizing die since it might be different from your handgun.

.452 projectile is an advantage if your already casting and sizing for it in 45 colt

[Outer Rondacker]

This is a copy from WIKI for ya. Ballistically the round is very flat out to 200 yards; if the firearm is zeroed at 150 yards, the user can expect to see a rise of 1.8 inches at 100 yards, zero at 150 yards and a drop of 3.4 inches at 200 yards.

I do cast for colt and 45 acp. I have to admit I was always on the 45-70 side just like the first line states in the first post. Lets have some fun.

[EDG]

I am sure a 45-70 can match or beat that drop figure when zeroed at 150 yards.

In a way the market has spoken. Browning made a batch of .454 Casulls in the 1885 Highwall single shots. They almost had to give those away.

This is a copy from WIKI for ya. Ballistically the round is very flat out to 200 yards; if the firearm is zeroed at 150 yards, the user can expect to see a rise of 1.8 inches at 100 yards, zero at 150 yards and a drop of 3.4 inches at 200 yards.

I do cast for colt and 45 acp. I have to admit I was always on the 45-70 side just like the first line states in the first post. Lets have some fun.

[charlie b]

Pick of rifle depends on how much recoil you want to feel. I'd want a heavier rifle in the big bores or they aren't much fun to shoot. I was really looking forward to the .45-70 Henry single shot until I saw it was a short, thin barrel. The CVA is a little better. Marlin I'd want the longer barrel version just for the weight. If I was serious about it I'd go for a Highwall with a heavy barrel.

But, that weight makes it less enjoyable to pack around when hunting. I would not mind that, but I don't hunt much. This is from someone who likes to shoot a .50 muzzle loader with 500gn bullets (rifle is almost 10lb).

If I only wanted to shoot 300gn bullets I'd get a smaller bore.

But, everyone likes things for different reasons.

[Texas by God]

My favorite 45-70 is the Marlin 1895 Cowboy. I had a first reissue 95 back in the day as well as a Ruger #3 and an H&R Shikari. All were great shooters.
The GBL is a neat little package.
I say go Marlin.

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[Outer Rondacker]

Found one new. MARLIN FIREARMS
Marlin Firearms 1895 GBL
PRODUCT CODE : 026495704568
$499.00
Mfg Item #: 70456

Looks like a good deal.

[M-Tecs]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...ew-45-70-auto/

[Outer Rondacker]

Great it looks like another round ruined by the AR fad.

[Texas by God]

The Marlin is made down the road from you. Tour the plant?

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[Outer Rondacker]

The Marlin is made down the road from you. Tour the plant?

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Yes I have. Even before they gave tours. It is sad. I do not care what anyone has to say ITS NYS fault they had to keep laying off workers and well are in the boat they are in. SAFE ACT screwed with them to much. There is a great museum in the front part of the building. I have not gone in a number of years. I wonder if they are still giving tours? If I am out that way this year I will stop in and see. I do believe most of the plant has moved to Huntsville. The entire town and surrounding area was built by Remington. When the doors close its going to crush the area.

[Ramjet-SS]

Allot of folks already cast for the 45 colt and those boolits work well in the Bushmaster. I like them all obviously that's why I own several of each. But the more I shoot the BM the more I like reloading for it. Very simple the idea of the AR platform is also something I like but then I like shooting the AR platform. I guess that will be my next project to build up a BM AR carbine.

One thing I love about the 45-70 is shooting big heavy cast bullets at moderate speeds it is just fun to do and you can shoot many rounds from a 1lb can of Unique......