PPQ Q5 Match/PPQ M2 5"

[robertbank]

Ok I have both of these guns. Both have polygonal rifling. I shoot a lot of lead for practicing IDPA. After 100+ rounds neither pistol shows any sign of leading using 125g gr Lyman 356402 bullets sized .357 cast from WW alloy. Both guns shoot like lasers using 125 gr BDX (Montana Gold your way) FMJ bullets over 4gr of Titegroup. The cartridges with 4.1 gr of 231/3.4 gr of 700X under the Lyman lead bullets group six inches off a rest at 10 yards!

The guns don't like lead and my question is why not? I know you guys know the answer and perhaps a cure other than to stick to FMJ for both guns.

Help!

Take Care

Bob
ps As an aside both guns have stepped chambers which I found interesting since I have not seen this before in 9MM pistols.

[Ramjet-SS]

Those guns are outstanding shooters I have run hundreds of rounds of cast through my 45 PPQ with no issues or leading ............... yes they are scary accurate.

[robertbank]

Those guns are outstanding shooters I have run hundreds of rounds of cast through my 45 PPQ with no issues or leading ............... yes they are scary accurate.

My problem is mine are not close to be accurate using lead bullets sized .357. I am thinking about applying some gas checks to my 356402 bullet and seeing if that works. My two guns are scary accurate with FMJ bullets to be sure

Take Care

Bob

[jcren]

I don't have that gun, but I know poly rifling likes fat bullets. I would try sizing to .358 or even .359. Basically as big as will chamber.

[robertbank]

I don't have that gun, but I know poly rifling likes fat bullets. I would try sizing to .358 or even .358. Basically as big as will chamber.

I was thinking in that direction I willl give that a try next week and post here my results. Thanks

Take Care

Bob

[ioon44]

I have both of those guns also and and get under 2" groups at 25 yards. I mostly run 130 gr FP bullets from a Accurate Mould with out lube rings sized to .3575" with Hi-Tek coating and alloy them up to 14 to 16 BHN, I never liked straight WW alloy too soft for 9 mm.

I check my barrels after each match or practice session and have run 300 or more rounds with out any leading. My PPQ 40 likes the harder alloy also but the PPQ 45 will run WW alloy with the Hi-Tek coating with out any problems.

The only problem with the .3757" bullets is when I clear the gun at a match some times they want to stick in the throat, so I may try to run .3570" and see how it works.

[robertbank]

ioon44 it sounds like your cartridges are a bit long if they are sticking in the throat. I suspect they are engaging the rifling not the throat. I water quench all my WW bullets in 9MM and have never had any leading in my 9MM guns.

Glad to hear you have Hi-Tek working for you. I had no luck at all with the stuff I suspect my oven time was off. I intend to try again this spring and see where it takes me.

Take Care

Bob

[ioon44]

Sticking in the throat could be part of it but it is not a big problem as not all rounds stick and the loads pass the plunk test.

One problem with Hi-Tek and water dropping it the minerals and other stuff that stick to the bullets when they dry.
I water dropped bullets for years and decided it was not worth the effort for me.

I guess the amount of driving band on a bullet has and effect on the poly rifling but I have not done a lot of testing in this area.

Have a good day

[FergusonTO35]

Robert Bank: what kind of bullet lube are you using? I find that the lube can make a big difference in a higher pressure cartridge. I have found that most "pistol" lubes are more suited to low pressure rounds. What is your OAL? The reason I ask is, my 9mm Glocks do just fine with the Lee 356-120-TC sized .357 with Tac-X over 3.8 grains 231 or Bullseye seated to 1.055. You may be running them right at the edge of skidding on the rifling. Might want to back down the powder charge just a bit and see what happens.

[robertbank]

Robert Bank: what kind of bullet lube are you using? I find that the lube can make a big difference in a higher pressure cartridge. I have found that most "pistol" lubes are more suited to low pressure rounds. What is your OAL? The reason I ask is, my 9mm Glocks do just fine with the Lee 356-120-TC sized .357 with Tac-X over 3.8 grains 231 or Bullseye seated to 1.055. You may be running them right at the edge of skidding on the rifling. Might want to back down the powder charge just a bit and see what happens.

I need to make 125PF and ideally run at around 135. If the bullets were skidding I should see some leading...and I am definitely not. My OAL with the Lyman 356402 bullet is 1.10" for all my 9MM pistols. Works fine in my Tanfoglio poly barrel. I just loaded 20 rds with 3.4 gr of 700X with bullets sized 358. We shall see if I see any improvement. Avg velocity of my six pistols tested with this load run 1060 fps. SD 9 which is pretty good.

I have not run the load/bullet combo over my Chrony with either of my PPQ's. I intend to once the weather improves. We had snow overnight and we are having a cool spring which is good given our late winter snows. No need to add a flood to an otherwise unremarkable winter. I will keep you all advised. Accuracy results should be available tomorrow.

Take Care

Bob

[Handloader109]

I used .356 initially and no leading, but accuracy not nearly as good as with factory ammo or my cheap barnes bullets.
.358 is way better.....

[robertbank]

Ok I got back from the range. The fatter .358 bullets went into an inch at 10 yards with no effort on my part. Good enough. What I will do is size bullets for the PPQ's 358. No real problem and carry on. I want to thank all those who replied.

Hanloader109try sizing your bullets .357. I had nothing but problems with all my 9MM guns when I sized .356. Bullets tumbled and accuracy was just not there. My 4.1 gr of 231 out of my CZ's using the Lyman 356402 bullet is a tack driver or what passes for tack driving in this neighbourhood. LOL

Take Care

Bob

[FergusonTO35]

Wow, .358 is pretty fat!

[robertbank]

Wow, .358 is pretty fat!

They load just fine in the PPQ. The pistol has a stepped chamber. I notice the fired brass indicates the chambers are cut larger than chambers found on my Beretta and M&P. The chambers neck the case down about 1/16th of an inch from the case mouth. The cases look like a miniature .357case with less of an indentation at the case mouth. I suspect the use of a stepped chamber adds to the reliability of the pistol if dirty ammunition was used. This is just speculation on my part. The stepped chamber appears on none of my other 9MM pistols.

Take Care

Bob

[Thumbcocker]

I size all 9 mm to .358

[ioon44]

I find that the 9 mm PPQ's with the stepped chamber run a lot cleaner, the frame is not as dirty as the .40 & .45 PPQ's after shooting about the same amount of rounds. I use CFE Pistol powder n the 9 mm, this may run cleaner than some other powders.

I can run .358" bullets in my 4" 9 mm PPQ but they are sticky in the 5" PPQ's.

[robertbank]

What are the advantages of a stepped chamber? I would assume reliability...any others? I doubt the Germans did it on a whim. My life experiences tell me their engineers are not so inclined.

Take Care

Bob

[Beau Cassidy]

Powder coat. Powder coat. Powder coat. I highly recommend it. I also size my 9mm bullets .357. None of my pistols lead- even the .357 Sig.

[ioon44]

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/p...amber-ppq.html

There is a drawing of the step 9 mm in this thread.

[FergusonTO35]

Robert Bank, have you slugged the bore on these pistols? If I'm not mistaken, SAAMI spec for 9x19 is .355. My Glock 19 and 26 do great sized to .357.