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Thread: 2,200 feet per second with lead bullets.

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub BobInAus's Avatar
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    2,200 feet per second with lead bullets.

    Hey guys,

    I read somewhere that a bloke was casting 170gr bullets for his 32 WS and averaging 2,200 fps without leading. He said he had used his own lube of 50% bees wax and 50% Alox. He did not expand any further. Would someone know if the Alox would have been Lee liquid alox or some form of solid Alox melted down to combine with the bees wax?

    Regard

    Bob.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Bob,
    50-50 lube, also known as NRA formula was developed by E.H. Harrison, an NRA employee IIRC, back in the 60's. It was a combination of beeswax and ALOX 2138F, a proprietary compound of the ALOX Corporation. ALOX 2138F is no longer available, I think the current 50-50 lube utilizes ALOX 350.

    You probably could use Lee Liquid Alox if you wanted to make your own, but it is readily available today from White Label Lubes (a sponsor of this site), Lyman and others. A couple of the more notable brands are Tamarack and Javelina. I must have used at least a truckload of Javelina in the last 40 years or so! Good stuff! Today I get mine from Lars at White Label. 50-50 lube is my go-to lube for anything that I plan to shoot faster than 1000 fps.
    "We'll kill them ALL!"

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  3. #3
    Boolit Master


    HangFireW8's Avatar
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    The Alox in LLA is neither 2138F nor 350, but it is a useful lube in its own right.

    The problem with mixing your own is Alox sells 350 by the drum.

    I think White Label will sell you a bucket if you ask. I just buy it premixed.

    I miss Javelina, they fell off the market a few years back. But, good 50/50 is available from White Label and other reputable vendors.
    Last edited by HangFireW8; 03-25-2018 at 02:29 PM.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Rcmaveric's Avatar
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    From the lube sticky:

    The formula for Alox 2138F (no longer available) is as follows:
    Material Wt % .
    Melt in a double boiler:
    Alox 350 7.00 (The exact amount isn’t critical. Use 10 or 20 parts if you want.)
    Slowly stir in until dissolved
    Petrolite C-700 3.00 (Microcrystalline wax)
    Blend until fully melted and dissolved.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To make the NRA Alox lube:
    50% Alox 2138F
    50% Bees Wax
    Optional twist: 10% Carnoba Wax
    Note: Alox 350 is one of a series of "oxidized petroleum fractions" (ie, partially burnt grease) originally developed by Alox Corp, of Niagra Falls, NY. However, they are now defunct, and the Alox line has been taken over by Lubrizol Corporation, who discontinued the Alox 2138F as too low in sales volume, but continues to offer the Alox 350 and a number of other Alox products, including the stuff sold as "Liquid Alox". You should be able to find them easily on the net at: http://corporate.lubrizol.com/.
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master rsrocket1's Avatar
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    My current favorite is 2:1 Beeswax:Vaseline. I'm cheap so the Beeswax I got was $9.13/pound (with 40% off coupon) after tax out the door at Hobby Lobby. This is cheaper than anything else I could find including here after you include shipping. The "Vaseline" is Dollar store clone petroleum jelly. Heated in a double boiler and mixed, this works well when used for ranch dipping, pan lubing or even smeared on with fingers. It doesn't liquify or run at 110F temperatures and remains pliable down in the 40's. I also use this lube for muzzleloading and it works fine.

    These bullets are made with reclaimed trap and skeet shot. Nothing added to the melt, just graphite scooped out before casting.

    Gas checked with either Hornady crimp on checks at 3 cents each or Vulcan aluminum checks at 2 cents apiece, they are accurate enough to 100 yards.

    50 yard group with Hornady copper checks



    More recent 100 yard group 26.4g Rx7 0.3" seat depth, Vulcan GC 24" Rem788 (only 2000 fps). I'm in the process of making up some more 2375 fps loads for 100 yard testing too. I goofed and loaded them with 26.4g and should have loaded them with 26.6g which gave me the good 50 yard groups.


  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    slim1836's Avatar
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    Looks like you found a good combination. Thanks for sharing.

    Slim
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    TOPIC no matter the quoted clips - and nothing else. If I have not typed your
    name, specifically, into the message, it IS NOT ABOUT YOU.

  7. #7
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsrocket1 View Post
    My current favorite is 2:1 Beeswax:Vaseline. I'm cheap so the Beeswax I got was $9.13/pound (with 40% off coupon) after tax out the door at Hobby Lobby. This is cheaper than anything else I could find including here after you include shipping. The "Vaseline" is Dollar store clone petroleum jelly. Heated in a double boiler and mixed, this works well when used for ranch dipping, pan lubing or even smeared on with fingers. It doesn't liquify or run at 110F temperatures and remains pliable down in the 40's. I also use this lube for muzzleloading and it works fine.

    These bullets are made with reclaimed trap and skeet shot. Nothing added to the melt, just graphite scooped out before casting.

    Gas checked with either Hornady crimp on checks at 3 cents each or Vulcan aluminum checks at 2 cents apiece, they are accurate enough to 100 yards.

    50 yard group with Hornady copper checks



    More recent 100 yard group 26.4g Rx7 0.3" seat depth, Vulcan GC 24" Rem788 (only 2000 fps). I'm in the process of making up some more 2375 fps loads for 100 yard testing too. I goofed and loaded them with 26.4g and should have loaded them with 26.6g which gave me the good 50 yard groups.

    Very nice

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    BobinAus,

    I'll not spend much time on home brew lubes. Yes I've been there and done that and frankly didn't seen to take a lot of effort to make a workable lube for handguns.

    However, with high quality lubes such as those from White Label Lube available at such reasonable prices it simply IS NOT worth the time and effort to brew my own.

    As per velocity, I tested a lot of 355gr Cast 45/70 bullets at over 2000fps velocity and as high as 2500fps with minimal signs of barrel leading. So minimal in fact that I do not consider that level to even qualify as, "leading". Light streaking in the last couple inches of the barrel simply doesn't qualify in my book.

    This past Summer I was developing cast bullet loads for a little RUGER 77/44 and with testing a 280gr as high as into the 1900s with most test loads in the high 16s and 1700 plus, the barrel is always bright and shinny after shooting. This with LBT (Lead Bullet Technology) soft blue lube.

    Crusty Deary Ol' Coot

  9. #9
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusty Deary Ol'Coot View Post
    BobinAus,

    I'll not spend much time on home brew lubes. Yes I've been there and done that and frankly didn't seen to take a lot of effort to make a workable lube for handguns.

    However, with high quality lubes such as those from White Label Lube available at such reasonable prices it simply IS NOT worth the time and effort to brew my own.

    As per velocity, I tested a lot of 355gr Cast 45/70 bullets at over 2000fps velocity and as high as 2500fps with minimal signs of barrel leading. So minimal in fact that I do not consider that level to even qualify as, "leading". Light streaking in the last couple inches of the barrel simply doesn't qualify in my book.

    This past Summer I was developing cast bullet loads for a little RUGER 77/44 and with testing a 280gr as high as into the 1900s with most test loads in the high 16s and 1700 plus, the barrel is always bright and shinny after shooting. This with LBT (Lead Bullet Technology) soft blue lube.

    Crusty Deary Ol' Coot
    Have to agree....for the vast majority of cast bullet shooting most of us do, making lube is not worth the effort.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  10. #10
    Vendor Sponsor D Crockett's Avatar
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    I have been making my own lube for years now. I have little to no leading problem with my lube I use it in both rifle and pistols here is the recipe <<< 2 tbs lanolin >>> 2tbs baby oil >>> 3/4 lb of bees wax >>> 5 tbs stearic acid >>> 7 tbs of Carnuba wax >>> 2/3 lb candle wax >>> 2 tbs stp oil treatment >>> and I do believe that a lot of lubes out on the market are good to but I like to make what I use D Crockett

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

    Newtire's Avatar
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    I think it was fun making my own Felix lube but I agree that with the low price and high quality of White Label, why bother making my own.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    What Newtire says!

    I'm in the process of sizing lubing about 1500 cast bullets, cast 2 weeks ago in about a 3 hour session. All for the .40 S&W.

    That process will take some hours before I can load and shoot. Using LBT (Lead Bullet Technology) soft blue, but would switch to a White Label Lube product if/when I'm out of the LBT product.

    Not really a question about being able to make a lube, it is more about the value of doing so.

    If/when I ever get some molds made, I "might" reheat and cast sticks of the stuff that has been sitting in the #10 tin can for years.

    But, there is/will be no push to do so as long as I can buy White Label Lube at such a reasonable price.

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check