Taurus Judge Blew Up With My Handloads. Opinions?

[country gent]

Isnt unique one that's been reformulated in just the past few years? This may have some bearing here. Data for the old may not be quite the same for the new version. Another powder related is It used to be we were told to start low and work up to a load not only starting out new but also when any components were changed including lot numbers of powder and primers.

I cant see it as a bad case or case with something in it to reduce volume from cleaning, Occasionally a 40 cal case gets in when cleaning mixed brass. But the OP stated all charges were visibly the same height.

If this is a new firearm then it may have been a base issue with something from stock to manufacturering flaw. Contact Taurus and see what they have to say. I'm thinking a flaw in material or timing issue. but a offset chamber of any amount should also have kept the firing pin from hitting the primer. That is a long heavy cylinder to rotate and it may have jumped from momentum. I haven't heard of many problems with the judge line of firearms.

[richhodg66]

The two Taurus revolvers I have are both good to go, never had a problem with either one. Dunno about the Judge, never had an interest in owning one. Is there something inherent about the design that makes it weak?

[Idaho45guy]

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My dad loves his Judge and carries it whenever he's in the Arizona desert.

I don't own a Taurus.

[Hannibal]

This is not the first, nor even the fifth, time that I have seen pics of a Judge blown up in this manner, several times by factory loads.

Can you provide a link? Friend of mine owns one of these. I've shot it several times. If this is true, I won't be shooting it any more.

I do not dispute that an overcharge/improper load can 'grenade' a revolver. That's a given.

[bangerjim]

It's a Taurus. Poor quality from end to end. It's no surprise metallurgy lacks as well as other qualities they don't have. Really sorry it blew up on you.

I have to also violently disagree with the statement above!!!!!! I own 5 Taurus Judge style guns and all perform great. For years. I recommend them to others. Light load......heavy load......any load! They shoot anything (loaded correctly) I can shove in them. Every time. Perfectly.

There is something strange about the OP’s problem. Any product can have defects. Just glad he is OK. I have seen Colts and other prime-name guns to the same thing.

SHOOT HAPPEN! Just be careful on loads.

I guess people just like to name-drop on here. To each his own. I own Taurus guns! And proud of them.

Good luck!

[Walkingwolf]

I have seen images of about every major manufacturer kabooms, one police dept had two with factory ammo using Glocks.

Not sure what makes people think that factory ammo is perfect. But I tend to think it was an overcharge.

[Powder Burn]

Don't have stainless. Only shoot 000 buck through mine. Also hunt with a Taurus .44 mag. which I reload to the max with 4227 using the nasty J word. Never had any problems. Glad your alright. That would have scared the **** out of me.

[Hannibal]

I have to also violently disagree with the statement above!!!!!! I own 5 Taurus Judge style guns and all perform great. For years. I recommend them to others. Light load......heavy load......any load! They shoot anything (loaded correctly) I can shove in them. Every time. Perfectly.

There is something strange about the OP’s problem. Any product can have defects. Just glad he is OK. I have seen Colts and other prime-name guns to the same thing.

SHOOT HAPPEN! Just be careful on loads.

I guess people just like to name-drop on here. To each his own. I own Taurus guns! And proud of them.

Good luck!

I freely admit I am not a big Taurus fan. I just do not care so much for the fit/finish. That said, I tend to believe this was an overcharge/improper charge problem and not a material/manufacturing defect.

Not that such is not possible, but it is unusual.

[HangFireW8]

8.8gr Unique each load hand dipped then trickled onto a GemTech 250
250gr Lead Boolit mix of commercial Missouri and my own cast all weighed within 2-3 grs of each other

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th edition. Unique
Lyman 452664, 250 grain Sugg starting grains 6.3 Max load grains 8.2

RCBS Cast Bullet Manual #1 Unique
45-250-FN, Sugg starting 7.4 gr Max 8.4 gr

QuickLoad says, with a 252grain Lee boolit, and 8.8gr Unique, you're running 17K PSI.
SAAMI MAP for 45 Colt is 14K PSI.

No comment about your loading technique or Taurus quality, I have no idea of either... but that's not a safe listed load you're working with.

[starmac]

Just glad you weren't hurt, or anybody else for that matter. I have never been drawn to to the concept for a judge, but don't figure it was the guns fault either.

[Hannibal]

QuickLoad says, with a 252grain Lee boolit, and 8.8gr Unique, you're running 17K PSI.
SAAMI MAP for 45 Colt is 14K PSI.

No comment about your loading technique or Taurus quality, I have no idea of either... but that's not a safe listed load you're working with.

I've not researched the load data you quoted, but an increase of charge pressure from 14K psi to 17K psi would not account for the failure/damage shown in the photograph.

Not saying it was a safe load, but 3K psi above max load data should not have resulted in a catastrophic failure as depicted.

[DDriller]

QuickLoad says, with a 252grain Lee boolit, and 8.8gr Unique, you're running 17K PSI.
SAAMI MAP for 45 Colt is 14K PSI.

No comment about your loading technique or Taurus quality, I have no idea of either... but that's not a safe listed load you're working with.

Trouble with QL is it is not always accurate for pressure or velocity.

[P Flados]

I just did a check and got about 5/16" short of a full case with 17.6 gr Unique in a fired 45 Colt case.

I also looked at the SAAMI Spec. Proof loads are 140% to 155% of max. So 1.4 x 14K is 19.6K min and max proof is 1.55 x 14k = 21.7K.

If the gun is built to survive 21.7K, a 17 K load should never cause gross failure. Worst case should be where regular shooting of loads above nominal but well below proof could "bulge" a cylinder.

I do feel that high strength stainless is an "at risk" material. The very high yield strengths available from hardened 410s and 17-4 PH type steels look great on paper, but they require very careful controls on the heat treat an temper process to get enough toughness to avoid the potential for brittle fracture.

On the other hand, in the photo it does look like there was plenty of plastic deformation of cylinder metal. Unless the temper was non-uniform and left a small portion of thin cylinder wall brittle, it is unlikely that the material was brittle.

If the material was over tempered (too soft), failure at 17k would be possible. However, I would have expected a bulged cylinder symptom from previous loads.

The other item not discussed is the cylinder bore. The judge is intended for 45 Colt or 410. I wonder if this chamber can allow a bullet to get a little cocked and try to jam.

[Hannibal]

I just did a check and got about 5/16" short of a full case with 17.6 gr Unique in a fired 45 Colt case.

And ugliness would undoubtedly ensue.

My .44 mag will get your attention with 10 grains and a 250 grain bullet.

YMMV.

[Rcmaveric]

This is why i weigh all the rounds once loaded.

[jonp]

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th edition. Unique
Lyman 452664, 250 grain Sugg starting grains 6.3 Max load grains 8.2

RCBS Cast Bullet Manual #1 Unique
45-250-FN, Sugg starting 7.4 gr Max 8.4 gr

You are correct, however, my Lee Book shows 9.4gr. As I said, I've used this load before and have had no problems. This is why I dropped down. Depending on the bullet, 9.0gr is a max load in this weight. The profile fits the one with this load. I checked 4 different books on this one.
The Alliant site itself lists 9.5gr as max with a 250gr lswc http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...3&cartridge=36

When in doubt on a load I go to the powder manu website and see what they say. It's over 1/2gr under their max and also Lee's max listing.

[jonp]

Can you provide a link? Friend of mine owns one of these. I've shot it several times. If this is true, I won't be shooting it any more.

I do not dispute that an overcharge/improper load can 'grenade' a revolver. That's a given.

I will disregard the squib load as all rounds exited the barrel. The double is a possibility and that was the first thought of mine but I look in the brass after charging to see what they looked like. I will be extra careful from now on with this step. Weighing the rounds is a good idea, Rcmaveric. I don't do that now but will add this step.

I doubt the out of time but that is a possibility. Lighter rounds using a 200gr boolit and light Tightgroup were very accurate and no evidence of lead spitting, leading etc were in evidence.

There is a full and very good crimp on the rounds so bullet setback from recoil causing over pressure is possible but unlikely. I looked at the powder in the Unique bottle and it is uniform so no contamination from a different powder.

The other item not discussed is the cylinder bore. The judge is intended for 45 Colt or 410. I wonder if this chamber can allow a bullet to get a little cocked and try to jam. Interesting idea but doubtful a bullet especially a lead one could get that cockeyed under a near max load. At worst it would try to enter the barrel and jam or cause spitting or severe leading. Neither are in evidence.

Most likely cause I'm going on is gun defect or double charge "grenading" the cylinder. Hard to believe a double as when I get near max I'm extra careful and the casefill of 17.6-18gr puts it almost full making that apparent but that seems the most likely at this point. The thing that is causing me to shy away from this explanation is the fill capacity in the case using a double charge of Unique and that I hand dipped and trickled each round instead of my Lyman 55 or other powder thrower.

Any other idea's? The general consensus seems to be a double charge or using the wrong powder. If its the wrong powder we will know shortly as I'm pulling the bullets in a few minutes at random to look and weigh. I hand dipped out of the jug itself with a lee dipper so the wrong powder is unlikely.

One final note. There is an interesting difference in the top strap breakage on the front. The break is a rough break as expected except there is one, small nice smooth hole like a bubble. I'm very interested in finding the top strap to see if there is a matching protrusion which would indicate poor casting. This is just a guess but if that would be true would a heavy load causing the top strap in the front to break cause the cylinder to ride up fast enough to jam the bullet into the frame and blow up the cylinder? This would leave a mark above the forcing cone as in if the failure is catastrophic enough to blow up the cylinder there would be some type of deformation on that or could the cylinder failure be fast enough to break off the top strap and exit the frame before anything else could happen?

[square butte]

My bet is a Metalurgically Challenged revolver. Good to go through the process of questioning the whole process - Are you following what went on at the State House up here yesterday . . .?

[jonp]

My bet is a Metalurgically Challenged revolver. Good to go through the process of questioning the whole process - Are you following what went on at the State House up here yesterday . . .?

Unfortunately, yes I am. It's a shame what some people from away are doing to our state all in the name of "DOING SOMETHING" even though there has been no problems in VT that I'm aware of

[dubber123]

This is why i weigh all the rounds once loaded.

its very common for cases, especially mixed headstamp to vary by much more than the charge weights in this case. Add in possibly a few grains variance in individual projectiles, and you will be chasing your tail forever weighing loaded rounds. I have seen small .357 mag cases vary by 10+ grains from different manufacturers.