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Thread: Taurus Judge Blew Up With My Handloads. Opinions?

  1. #41
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by dubber123 View Post
    its very common for cases, especially mixed headstamp to vary by much more than the charge weights in this case. Add in possibly a few grains variance in individual projectiles, and you will be chasing your tail forever weighing loaded rounds. I have seen small .357 mag cases vary by 10+ grains from different manufacturers.
    True but I'm using all unfired Starline brass and chasing a double charge. 8-9gr variance in new pistol brass from Starline seems very unlikely. Weighing would see about double rounds I'd think
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  2. #42
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    yup I hate to rain on the tarrus cheerleaders but there will be none in my safe. Buddy had one just like that and at 5 yards yo were lucky to keep one pellet on a piece of paper. Fit and finish right up there with a yugo. Ive found most of the guys who brag on them have owned maybe on and have never owned something to compare it to or cant afford something good and feel they have to defend there honor because there way to smart to buy junk. Ive owned a few and had exactly one decent one and that was a pt92. thank God it never broke. I can save you the aggravation of contacting tarrus and complaining. YOU WILL GET NO WHERE. they will blame everything but there product. Even if they were good guns they have hands down the worse customers service and warrantee dept in the gun world. I once sent them an 85 that was out of tune and it took a year and probably 2o letters to get it back and when it got back it was just as bad as when I sent it. I doubt they even looked at it. Consider it a 500 dollar lesson and move on.
    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    It's a Taurus. Poor quality from end to end. It's no surprise metallurgy lacks as well as other qualities they don't have. Really sorry it blew up on you.

  3. #43
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    I was fortunate enough to witness just how bad the Judges are. At the range one afternoon I watched a gentleman open a brand new box of store bought 45LC ammunition load his Judge and fire. The result after several rounds was it absolutely wouldn't rotate the cylinder anymore. Neither one of us could get it open.

    I will say something for the 44 magnum Raging Bull. It is heavily built and is a very good gun. My brother owns one and he also owns S&W, Ruger Red Hawk, and others. I currently own a Desert Eagle, 2) S&W 629's a Ruger Super Red HAwk and I would put his raging bull up next to the Super Red Hawk.
    Last edited by 6bg6ga; 03-24-2018 at 10:31 AM.

  4. #44
    Boolit Grand Master

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    WOW, Glad you were not injured!

    It seems like you have covered everything. Your loading technique seems to be in order, and safe. You weighed the charges and double checked them. Correct bullet weight. New brass. Correct powder, and not mixed up. Just curious, did you compare the powder you used to that in another can? You had holes in the target to account for all of your shots, so not a squib load. If all of the above checked out, it seems like a defect in the pistol.

    I'm not sure that weighing loaded rounds would tell you anything? Maybe? Case weights differ and so do bullet weights. You might weigh the rest of your loads as you break them down, just to see how close they are. Are they less than 8 grains difference between them?

    On a different note, my Son carry one of these when he is working on his Duck lease. I will mention this to him.

    Really happy that you are OK!

  5. #45
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    I stick with .410 Federal Handgun #000 Buckshot and #7 Birdshot with my Governor
    Have never seen a problem with the S&W Governor with any ammunition

  6. #46
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    I have never owned a Taurus and I won't ever own one.

    One of my gunsmith buddies absolutely hates the Judge and he won't touch one. He states the frame stretches and leads to misfires before it completely fails. You can check for stretching by seeing if the cylinder has any forward and backward motion. There should be none!
    If it stretches, he says to have Taurus fix it/replace it and then sell it at the next gun show to a stranger.

    I am personally opposed to passing on gun problems to others, but that is what he says.

  7. #47
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    Well, the Judge always seemed like a strange concept to me, so never interested me, and I think something inherent in that design is to blame.

    I have two Taurus revolvers and contrary to the condescending "they don't own anything to compare it to and are too dumb to know better" argument, I have S&W and Ruger revolvers also.

    Both my Taurus revolvers are basic no frills belly guns, one a .44 Special and a lightweight Model 85 snub .38 which I carry. I haven't put tens of thousands of rounds through either, but have shot both quite a bit and not had a problem with either. The little .38 handles the +P factory loadings just fine. In short, both are exactly what they claim to be, no better or worse.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho45guy View Post
    Attachment 216983

    Attachment 216984

    Attachment 216985

    Attachment 216986

    My dad loves his Judge and carries it whenever he's in the Arizona desert.

    I don't own a Taurus.


    The top one is a Thunder Five not a Taurus.
    You can miss fast & you can miss a lot, but only hits count.

  9. #49
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    I have no dog in this "Taurus" fight. It's either a problem with the gun, or with the load. Anything else is pure speculation. I'd send the revolver back to them so they can try to figure out what caused the failure, and address it before someone gets hurt or worse. Glad no one was injured, and sorry about the loss of your gun.

  10. #50
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    Everyone please read the other thread on what I have checked so far and mention anything on that thread I have missed so far.

    The weight variation of loaded rounds and the components I'm checking to see if the variation is less than the weight of a double charge and it is. The powder weight difference between the lightest and heaviest loaded round is .05gr. That is: 8.75-8.8gr so it seems correct.
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Down South View Post
    I wonder if it was a squib load with a boolit stuck in a throat with a shot fired behind it?
    The snag with that theory is that the OP would have to overlook an almost total lack of noise and recoil. If it happened, and the bullet was in the barrel, thought, it is wrong to suppose that a ring bulge would have resulted. That isn't caused by metal striking metal, but by a gas pressure wave catching up on a decelerated bullet, and the blown cylinder probably relieved all pressure fast enough to prevent that.

    If it happened that way, it is quite possible that the bullets would have reached the target without yawing. When people load a column of little tuna-can bullets in a .357 Maximum or Magnum case they do, as each in turn is plucked off the column by suction on its base.

    At least as likely as a double powder charge, I would have thought, would be a double bulleted round. I don't think that would be very noticeable in a powerful reloading press.

  12. #52
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    At least as likely as a double powder charge, I would have thought, would be a double bulleted round. I don't think that would be very noticeable in a powerful reloading press.
    I was using a Lee Single Stage. Double boolit pretty much impossible.
    I Am Descended From Men Who Would Not Be Ruled

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  13. #53
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    Decades ago I was shooting some 'heavy' .38 Spl. loads from my then wife's S&W #60 2" when a friend admired and asked to shoot some. I gave him six and his Taurus came apart just like that Judge. I bought him a S&W #19 4" as a replacement. Mebbeso there's a quality thing about Taurus?
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  14. #54
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    seems to me that if you are that close to max on your charge weight
    that you need to worry about components weight you are most likely
    treading very close to dangerous pressures already now if it has nothing to do with
    you,your loads or components that only leaves one thing, the gun itself
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrassMagnet View Post
    I have never owned a Taurus and I won't ever own one.

    One of my gunsmith buddies absolutely hates the Judge and he won't touch one. He states the frame stretches and leads to misfires before it completely fails. You can check for stretching by seeing if the cylinder has any forward and backward motion. There should be none!
    If it stretches, he says to have Taurus fix it/replace it and then sell it at the next gun show to a stranger.

    I am personally opposed to passing on gun problems to others, but that is what he says.
    While I will read these types of KaBoom threads with interest, I hate to comment, as I don't claim to have the type of knowledge or wisdom to diagnose such a failure. Add that, I've never shot a Judge, and I've never even inspected a Judge. So take my thought with a grain of salt.

    If BrassMagnet's gunsmith buddy has seen this more than once...or especially if he's seen it several times?
    Then I wonder if your frame stretched enough during the second to the last shot, so that when the last round fired, the barrel and cylinder were not aligned well, so as the near Max 17Kpsi would have increased (due to misalignment) enough to make the cylinder fail, but still hold together long enough to allow the boolit (or most of the boolit) go down range. That may also explain the disappearance of the top strap...if a sheared off piece of the boolit launched it up up and away.
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  16. #56
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    There was a time I could see maybe owning a Taurus in years gone by. However, their reputation has been on a decline the past 4-5 years to the point I can not, and would not recommend one to anyone.

    Sad to see as their quality has gone so far south. Not everyone can afford a Ruger, S&W, etc of better quality and it gave those people an option other than not having a gun at all.

    Murphy
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  17. #57
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    Once you say you are shooting reloads, most manufacturers will use it as a “get out of jail free”. There are many ways to screw up a reload.

    If it is a fault in the metal it can be determined, but that will likely cost as much as the gun is worth. Worth checking into and suggesting you may do that when you contact Taurus.

    My procedure for loading on a single stage is to drop the powder and immediately seat the bullet and crimp it. There is no chance of double charging with that method. I nearly had a double charge when I used to charge all the cases first and found that it was safer to charge and seat each round and faster as well. YMMV
    Don Verna


  18. #58
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    8.8 is not a hot load. I have some reloading data where it gives standard pressure, blackhawk, and now judge loads. The Judge loads are higher than standard pressure, but still low pressure due to all the blow by in the chamber of those guns.

    One of the problems with the colt is there is so much capacity, you can easily double or triple charge with room left over.

  19. #59
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    Just looking at the Hornady third edition I keep handy. The list 8.8 grains of Unique as their max load for 900 FPS with their 250 grain JHP. This is not the "Ruger only" section, but should be safe in the old Colts.

    Assuming no mistake was made, I think it unlikely that the handloads were what caused this.

  20. #60
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    I would say it is a metallurgical problem with the gun. slight chance of an SEE, with that powder charge. I don't know if a defective/weak primer might cause minimal ignition and a pressure wave is started as part of the powder ignites then burn almost stops, then resumes causing higher than normal pressures, of if even that this though is in the realm of possibility.
    Had the same thing happen to a S&W 29 silhouette. Second cylinderfull. Saw where the first three hit and on the 4th, mild recoil, a flash and the top half of the cylinder was gone along with the top strap with a 90 degree bend.
    New brass, bullets and powder weighted, powder level inspected while charged cases in loading block, ect. I was loading ammo to test for use in IHMSA. I had bought the gun the weekend prior and wanted to shoot it the next match.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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GC Gas Check