Taurus Judge Blew Up With My Handloads. Opinions?

[jmort]

Like many, I question the specific load in the round that caused this. I can listen to what a big surprise, I don't know for a fact it was as stated, but I will never agree that there was no room for error. I tend to think human error in the load. You can deconstruct 1,000 bullets, but that tells you nothing about the round in the chamber.

[Walkingwolf]

Once you say you are shooting reloads, most manufacturers will use it as a “get out of jail free”. There are many ways to screw up a reload.

If it is a fault in the metal it can be determined, but that will likely cost as much as the gun is worth. Worth checking into and suggesting you may do that when you contact Taurus.

My procedure for loading on a single stage is to drop the powder and immediately seat the bullet and crimp it. There is no chance of double charging with that method. I nearly had a double charge when I used to charge all the cases first and found that it was safer to charge and seat each round and faster as well. YMMV

This is what I do, every single time. I also weigh every single charge, no matter how consistent the powder measure is. Just me but I would not trust a scoop as they can compress powder.

[reddog81]

This had to be an extreme overpressure event. A slightly hot load doesn't just blow the cylinder apart and send the topstrap flying. Did you find the piece of brass that was fired? It has to be split open like a banana if it did that to the gun. It's possible the poor metallurgy contributed to the dramatic results, but you don't go from loads that are fine to a load that tears the gun apart in just 3,000 PSI.

I've heard of numerous people either modifying the frame or cylinder of their Judge to shoot .45 ACP. While I would not recommend such modifications, I would have to assume the Judge can easily handle 21,000 PSI loads.

FWIW you absolutely can find a double charge by weighing loaded rounds if the brass is all from the same lot and usually even if it's just the same headstamp. I've weighed loaded .38 special rounds to double check for over charges and out of 50 not one was off by more than 2 grains.

[Biggin]

Probably gonna make all the Taurus haters mad at me but I've had several over the last 30 years. Never had a problem. However I've never handloaded for my judge, never seen any point in it. I keep it loaded with buckshot and or birdshot. Imo it's for varmint either 2 legged 3 legged or no legged at close range. 3yds or less.

[Biggin]

4 legged varmint s as well!!!! LOL!!!

[jonp]

I have the brass and all look like i could size and reload them back up

[Grmps]

I've got to agree with Hamish. Manufacturing defect there had to be a flaw to get even separation like that. I'd contact Taurus and make them replace it.

[Camper64]

Did you confirm each hole in the target as they were shot or at the end after the gun blew up? I'm just wondering if its possible the last shot pushed a squibbed bullet to the target.

[dverna]

Jonp,

In my post, I forgot to mention that I am glad you were not hurt.

Also, not suggesting you are/were careless. A different protocol may help avoid accidents and be more useful for less experienced reloaders.

I hope you can determine the cause of what happened and that the issue was the gun.

Again, glad no one was injured.

[jonp]

Don,
No Worries. I'm trying to get to the bottom of this and all comments are welcome.

I just ran 6 random from the box in my 7.5in New Model Blackhawk. Stout but nothing to write home about. All seemed the same in recoil. All hit the target.

[jonp]

Did you confirm each hole in the target as they were shot or at the end after the gun blew up? I'm just wondering if its possible the last shot pushed a squibbed bullet to the target.

? No, I don't remember checking each shot just the target after the gun exploded to make sure 4 rounds hit it including the last one.

[jimlj]

yup I hate to rain on the tarrus cheerleaders but there will be none in my safe. Buddy had one just like that and at 5 yards yo were lucky to keep one pellet on a piece of paper. Fit and finish right up there with a yugo. Ive found most of the guys who brag on them have owned maybe on and have never owned something to compare it to or cant afford something good and feel they have to defend there honor because there way to smart to buy junk. Ive owned a few and had exactly one decent one and that was a pt92. thank God it never broke. I can save you the aggravation of contacting tarrus and complaining. YOU WILL GET NO WHERE. they will blame everything but there product. Even if they were good guns they have hands down the worse customers service and warrantee dept in the gun world. I once sent them an 85 that was out of tune and it took a year and probably 2o letters to get it back and when it got back it was just as bad as when I sent it. I doubt they even looked at it. Consider it a 500 dollar lesson and move on.

I am NOT a Taurus cheerleader. I own one among other quality guns. I can afford better, but for what I wanted the Taurus for it was good enough. My problem with the comment is about Taurus customer service. While they were not the fastest, they took care of a problem with my 709 slim I purchased used. They sent me a shipping label which saved me $30+. They called me a few weeks later and told me they couldn't fix the problem and were sending me a new gun through my FFL. It took about another month to receive it but my only cost was the transfer fee to the FFL, and I think if I had asked Taurus to pay it they would have. I don't know what they will do with reloads, but from reading this and the OP's other post he has all of the brass, and it sounds as though the offending piece wasn't even split. The worse that could happen is they say no, but I believe if you plead your case politely without being a malignant anal orifice it goes a long way.

[Adam20]

I was just reloading some .223 with 26 of cfe223, measuring on a rcbs 750 electronic scale.
The first one I dumped into the case overflowed. I got to checking everything again and after I calibrated the scale I was set on grams not grains. Something to think about on large cases with low fill. Glad you were not hurt. Just a reminder to keep checking everything and not become lax in paying attention to what your doing. Not saying you did anything wrong at all.

[DCM]

Jonp
Glad you were not hurt!
You appear to be on the right track with this IMO. Either the load or the gun.

I owned a taurus many years ago and sent it in for warranty repairs twice before the LGS bought it back as it never got fixed. I will not own another.

[Lloyd Smale]

well bottom line is it was either a defective gun or an double charge or a previous squib that was lodged in the barrel. . 2 grains difference in powder charge would not do this. Guns are proofed at twice normal pressures. real simple common sense answer would come from the recoil of that load. There is going to be a HUGE difference between the recoil of 17 grains of unique and 8.8. HUGE. There is going to be a huge difference in recoil between trying to shoot one 255 grain bullet out of the bore with 8.8 grains of unigue then if that powder is trying to pus 510 grains of bullet. So if the gun about tried to rip itself out of your hands you had a load problem if recoil was about the same as any other shot you had a gun problem. but good luck getting tarrus to admit it

[6bg6ga]

well bottom line is it was either a defective gun or an double charge or a previous squib that was lodged in the barrel. . 2 grains difference in powder charge would not do this. Guns are proofed at twice normal pressures. real simple common sense answer would come from the recoil of that load. There is going to be a HUGE difference between the recoil of 17 grains of unique and 8.8. HUGE. There is going to be a huge difference in recoil between trying to shoot one 255 grain bullet out of the bore with 8.8 grains of unigue then if that powder is trying to pus 510 grains of bullet. So if the gun about tried to rip itself out of your hands you had a load problem if recoil was about the same as any other shot you had a gun problem. but good luck getting tarrus to admit it

I'm not a Judge fan period. I have seen these things break with factory loaded ammunition. This is a piss poor example of something that is supposed to be capable of firing a shotgun cartridge and a pistol cartridge. The bad thing is people purchase them with the idea that they can actually have something that will shoot 45LC and group fairly decently and then fire a 410 shotgun shell. Well, seen them up close and they can sometimes hit the paper with a 410 shell and maybe manage a 12" group at 20 feet with 45LC shells. People get real please! If you want a **** shotgun then buy one. Take a single shot shotgun saw off the barrel to legal length and you will have something superior to the Judge. Buy a cheap 45 LC revolver and it will be better than the Judge. The Judge is a real *** and a waste of money.

[pmer]

This type of thing usually requires a combination of events. The load by itself doesn't seem totally out of line. I wonder when one of these blow is it usually when 45 Colt is fired?

Glad the OP is okay.

Weak primer, low seating pressure and all of that free bore and maybe a stretched frame or something. I doubt this happened but I suppose a boolit could completely come out of the case and the cylinder could still rotate.

[richhodg66]

I'm not a Judge fan period. I have seen these things break with factory loaded ammunition. This is a piss poor example of something that is supposed to be capable of firing a shotgun cartridge and a pistol cartridge. The bad thing is people purchase them with the idea that they can actually have something that will shoot 45LC and group fairly decently and then fire a 410 shotgun shell. Well, seen them up close and they can sometimes hit the paper with a 410 shell and maybe manage a 12" group at 20 feet with 45LC shells. People get real please! If you want a **** shotgun then buy one. Take a single shot shotgun saw off the barrel to legal length and you will have something superior to the Judge. Buy a cheap 45 LC revolver and it will be better than the Judge. The Judge is a real *** and a waste of money.

On this I agree. The Taurus revolvers I have are fine, but the whole "shoot .410 shells and solid ammo through it" always seemed a strange thing and in the back of my mind asking for trouble. I live out in the country so a short handy thing for shooting small, fleeting targets makes sense and I got one of the Taurus "Tuffy" shotguns like the old Snake Charmers. Much more sensible in my opinion. For a man stopper revolver, I really think a big solid bullet from a .45 Colt would do the job better than 5/8 ounce of bird shot would.

The OP has started another thread I've been reading and I am more and more convinced this was a gun problem, either an inherent design flaw or a QC problem.

[6bg6ga]

This type of thing usually requires a combination of events. The load by itself doesn't seem totally out of line. I wonder when one of these blow is it usually when 45 Colt is fired?

Glad the OP is okay.

Weak primer, low seating pressure and all of that free bore and maybe a stretched frame or something. I doubt this happened but I suppose a boolit could completely come out of the case and the cylinder could still rotate.

The ones I saw trashed were done with factory 45LC ammunition. I would call it poor metal and bad engineering.

[jonp]

In my other thread on the steps I'm trying out Der Gebirgsjager, I think, nailed the problem as did bayjoe in post #13 here.

Both suggested a cylinder out of time and asked about the brass. Rechecking the 4 fired rounds from this explosion which includes the 3 fired before the 4th detonated and 6 fired from my Blackhawk yesterday only the one that blew up the gun had a primer strike slightly off center.

After further research I found something along the lines of this in a Taurus Armed Thread: http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/sm...-cylinder.html

So, I came to this site for ideas on what may have happened and I think we got it. Sticky cylinder stop caused the cylinder to stop slightly off center and when the hammer dropped on an out of battery, free wheeling cylinder BOOM! Never occured to me as the gun is nearly new with 20 or so rounds shot through it.

Any argument on this one?