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Thread: blackout rambling

  1. #1
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    blackout rambling

    Ive built two AR pistols now. A 8.5 inch 5.56 and a 4.5 inch 9mm. Ive got the itch for another before someone puts the skids to them too. I'm thinking 300 blackout for a couple reasons. One is in a shtf senerio id allways have cast bullets I can feed it and just the price of 223 ball bullets keeps me from going out and blasting 500 rounds a day out of my 5.56 guns. Kind of the same reason I built the 9mm. I can shoot 5 or 6 9mms for the cost of one reloaded 223. Now the 300 also has an advantage over the 9 in that it could be used as a deer rifle. Many claim that with a 110-125 bullet they do well out to a 100 yards. I got looking around at loading data and found what we did was come full circle. My first deer rifle was a 30 carbine. I shot maybe a dozen deer with it and for the most part feel I got away with it. All shots were 50 yards or less in stands set up I the swamp. Most at about bow hunting range. Another old timer at camp hunted exclusively with one and killed truck loads of deer but thinking back I can remember some we spent a lot of time tracking some we didn't recover and he was the type that many times had a few to many in his blind and I'm sure he shot deer that ran off and didn't even bother much more then looking where he shot to recover them. I guess what I'm asking is the TRUTH from guys that have done it. Not ballistics experts or theorists. A litte 8.5 inch deer gun with a arm brace would be an awful handy hunting package if it worked. I know a 10.5 would be better but Michigan law is funky with overall length and a 10.5 is pushing it to the point its to long to be considered a handgun. In the real world am I getting any advantage over using my 8.5 inch 5.56 with partitions. It would be real nice to here from someone who has ACTUALLY DONE IT WITH BOTH.

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Lloyd,

    Even if you find someone with an "answer", will it be correct and how much data supports it? As you said, in your experience over many hunts the .30 carbine worked but was marginal at times.

    One option is to take one of your .30 cal rifles (even a .30/30 if single loaded will work) and get something like the Hornady 135-grain FTX, download it to the velocity you estimate out of 8.5" barrel, do some testing, and see for yourself. "Testing" is not the same as shooting deer but it is better than nothing.

    I understand the attraction of having an AR platform that can shoot cheap cast bullets at longer ranges than your 9mm. Midsouth has Hornady 55 gr bullets for $75/1000 to feed your current 5.56 pistol and GC'ed .30 cal cast bullets are going to cost about $44/1000 with $1.00/lb lead unless you make your own GC's. So not a lot of money saved unless you are shooting a lot. Plus factor in the cost and ease of using cheap .223 brass vs the cost and/or time to make .300 brass. I figure the cost of your project gun will be about $600 by the time you add a sight and if you want to add a mold it will be $700. Breakeven will be 19-22k rounds.

    If the .300 is a better deer caliber in a pistol barrel, it may be worth it. But if the SHTF, the last thing we will worry about is what is legal, so having a longer barrel to add later may be something to consider.

    Sorry I rambled a bit too!
    Don Verna


  3. #3
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    I'm working on .300BO loads with the 135g FTX bullet for deer/ pigs. A little lighter than the 150 but still heavier than the 125g. Hope to get more speed than I could expect from 150 loads to encourage expansion and not as Pricey as Nosler Accubonds in 125g...

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    I'm also working with a .357AR (barrel from MadDogWeapons Systems)... 158-200g ".357 MAX Rimless"! Made from AR 15 brass, uses common (inexpensive) bolt, and lightly modified Pmags!

    https://mdws.forumchitchat.com/post?id=8636138

  5. #5
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    Lloyd
    This past season my sons (9yo and 10yo) killed 3 pigs and 1 doe with a 300 blk carbine.
    125 gr NBT's out to 135 yards and 2 of the pigs were over 200 lbs. 3 were one shot kills and very short recoveries. (the younger son is a much better shot.)

    I just finished putting together a 10 1/2" brl pistol that I plan on trying out in the next week or two. Going to try to get some pigs in turkey season.

    I agree with your thoughts. A blackout pistol would be comparable to a .30 carbine.

    I like the thought of the .357AR also.

    Dave

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Just build an upper. Use the .223 lower.
    QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES?

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    that's what I plan. I my AR pistol lower is multi caliber. Id use that at first and maybe next year buy another lower. 3 new ars in the last 3 months tapped my gun budget right out for this year.
    Quote Originally Posted by jdfoxinc View Post
    Just build an upper. Use the .223 lower.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdd4570 View Post
    Lloyd
    This past season my sons (9yo and 10yo) killed 3 pigs and 1 doe with a 300 blk carbine.
    125 gr NBT's out to 135 yards and 2 of the pigs were over 200 lbs. 3 were one shot kills and very short recoveries. (the younger son is a much better shot.)

    I just finished putting together a 10 1/2" brl pistol that I plan on trying out in the next week or two. Going to try to get some pigs in turkey season.

    I agree with your thoughts. A blackout pistol would be comparable to a .30 carbine.

    I like the thought of the .357AR also.

    Dave
    If you would Dave keep me posted on how that 10.5 gun does in the field.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by badge176 View Post
    I'm working on .300BO loads with the 135g FTX bullet for deer/ pigs. A little lighter than the 150 but still heavier than the 125g. Hope to get more speed than I could expect from 150 loads to encourage expansion and not as Pricey as Nosler Accubonds in 125g...
    Id appreciate it if you could let me know how it does too.

  10. #10
    Boolit Bub
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    The .300 Blackout is a useful little cartridge. I haven't shot a deer with one yet, but have killed 8 hogs with 8 shots. None were huge, but they ranged from 30# to 125# or so. All were complete pass through, using the 110gr Barnes Tac TX at 2400. Longest shot was just under 150 yards. For hunting the Barnes is the way to go. I have tested other cup and core bullets and most of the lighter ones are very soft and don't penetrate well, and the heavier bullets are too tough and moving too slow. For around the farm I almost think of it as a cross between a .32-20 Carbine and a .30-30 depending how I load it. In a 8.5" pistol You can get 2200 with the same load of H110 and the 110gr Barnes. So while similar, it is a step up from a .30 Carbine. Plus it is much more versatile.

    It is a great cast bullet cartridge, I have use several different bullets from the 155gr Lee to a Noe 311247. That bullet over 2400 in a bolt action American is super quiet with a supressor. Very close to a supressed .22 rifle with subsonic ammo. The larger HP cavities weigh about 230gr and in testing the nose expands rapidly and usually breaks up, leaving a 160gr wadcutter to penetrate.
    You can push the 155gr to about 2000 FPS in a 16" with good accuracy for a plinking load.

  11. #11
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    My testing pretty much lines up with jareds
    Love the NOE 311247 hp 49/49/2
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  12. #12
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    10.5" BO pistol, 150gr Hornady, 50 yds -SeeAll sight. 142gr & 170gr RD (both PB) work the same.
    Upper group is me lower is buddy who never shot one before.
    Attachment 217172
    Whatever!

  13. #13
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    Love 300 BO AR pistol.

    Waiting for 224 Valkyrie AR uppers to become available

  14. #14
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    I haven’t used a short 300blk on anything but did kill several antelope with a 16” 300whisper and 125gr Nosler Ballistic tips, I don’t recall the velocity but the 8 extra inches of barrel doesn’t matter that much with this round. It worked, the antelope died quickly. Now with bullets available like the 110gr Barnes there’s no reason it wouldn’t break 2000fps and kill a swamp deer. I haven’t used a 223 for big game but if I was using one at short range from a short barrel I’d want to hit the brain.
    Doug
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  15. #15
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    I have a 16” carbine and an 8.5” pistol. One of the gents who worked at AAC when they designed the Blackout is a moderator over at the Blackout forum. He claims that the cartridge burns almost all its powder in 9” of barrel. I know my 8.5” doesn’t have much muzzle flash.
    Think of it as a .30 Carbine +p+. I was impressed with the damage a 125gr SST did to an 8 point two years ago, albeit out of a 16” carbine. I wouldn’t have any qualms about shooting a deer sized critter within 100 yards with either gun and a decent boolit/bullet.

  16. #16
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    Interesting thread. If you don't mind my asking a dumb question, Lloyd, you said, "my AR pistol lower is multi-caliber". What am I missing here? I was under the impression all AR 15 lowers were essentially the same? I understand that if you want to build a pistol your purchase of a lower must state pistol at the time of purchase, but beyond that what are we talking about here? Thanks.

    exile
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

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  17. #17
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    You don’t have to state pistol and a stripped lower can be built into any legal configuration you want. Multi caliber is the marking instead of say 223/556.....it doesn’t matter what it’s marked. My SBR is registered as a 300blk on a lower stamped 223 from the factory.
    Doug
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    Taxidermists are cheaper than surgeons....keep shooting

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dk17hmr View Post
    You don’t have to state pistol and a stripped lower can be built into any legal configuration you want. Multi caliber is the marking instead of say 223/556.....it doesn’t matter what it’s marked. My SBR is registered as a 300blk on a lower stamped 223 from the factory.
    OK, I guess I really don't understand the rules. So far off topic I guess I need to start my own thread. Thanks for the response.

    exile
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

  19. #19
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    In Michigan we do. You are right that the batf fourm doesn't require you classify it as a handgun or rifle or which caliber your going to use but in Michigan I have to register it as a handgun when it together. So technically if I register it as a 5.56 and the police are looking at it at the range and it has a 300 blackout upper its not to the exact word of law. I was told by the state police that they wouldn't really care. But if you have some tropper responding to a complaint and he gets there and you have your pistol braced AR handgun its going to be confusing enough trying to explain it to him without having it marked as a different caliber. So I tend to look for multi caliber lowers. That way it doesn't even raise suspicion from your average tropper that probably doesn't even know how to field strip his glock let alone knows ANYTHING about batf laws.
    Quote Originally Posted by dk17hmr View Post
    You don’t have to state pistol and a stripped lower can be built into any legal configuration you want. Multi caliber is the marking instead of say 223/556.....it doesn’t matter what it’s marked. My SBR is registered as a 300blk on a lower stamped 223 from the factory.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick R View Post
    I have a 16” carbine and an 8.5” pistol. One of the gents who worked at AAC when they designed the Blackout is a moderator over at the Blackout forum. He claims that the cartridge burns almost all its powder in 9” of barrel. I know my 8.5” doesn’t have much muzzle flash.
    Think of it as a .30 Carbine +p+. I was impressed with the damage a 125gr SST did to an 8 point two years ago, albeit out of a 16” carbine. I wouldn’t have any qualms about shooting a deer sized critter within 100 yards with either gun and a decent boolit/bullet.
    I can say there are distinct differences between my 16" carbine my sons 10.5" SBR and my 7.5" Encore barrel when shooting the same subsonic ammo through the same supressor. With the 16" the most noise comes from the action the 10.5" and the 7.5" are a toss up for noise, the 7.5 has no action however the increased pressure makes it a wash.

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BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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